DRINK F*** FIGHT wrote:
VerminMeat wrote:That was a brilliant discussion of the plan the GOP has for reforming health care in the USA. Very informative. Also very wrong.
The money has to come from someone you beta cuck fagg0t!
That "someone" is the people who actually work.
Contrary to your "fairy" existence healthcare ain't free.
Your eloquent prose and sharp wit are self evident. I see you have a deep insight into public policy as it relates to healthcare.
So, the latest plan to fix healthcare:
Trump wants to cover Americans.
"We're going to have insurance for everybody," Trump told The Washington Post. "There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us."
Confusing because it goes against the conservative philosophy.
'Republicans have long slammed Obamacare, saying its high premiums and deductibles leave enrollees feeling like the don't have insurance. They have vowed to lower the cost, primarily by lifting Obamacare's insurance regulations that require carriers to provide comprehensive benefits.
Ryan and Price have unveiled frameworks for replacement plans that rely on tax credits based on enrollees' age, not income. However, health policy experts have said those credits will have to be generous in order to make coverage affordable. And that could run afoul of Republicans' promise to lower federal spending on health care.'
So he wants lower deductibles, while conservatives here think high deductibles are needed to keep costs or premiums down (which is correct).
The key here is removing regulations that insist that the coverage be good.
That way he can keep costs down while saying more people are covered when they really aren't covered for many things. Still out of luck if they get sick.
There is no shell game you can plan that will provide comprehensive coverage that actually keeps current coverage up, lowers premiums, lowers deductibles and doesn't add to government spending.
And that sounds like what Trump is promising.
There is no shell game you can plan that will provide comprehensive coverage that actually keeps current coverage up, lowers premiums, lowers deductibles and doesn't add to government spending.
And that sounds like what Trump is promising.
Get ready for this to be the model for the next few years: Trump promises something impossible (healthcare, jobs, coal mining, manufacturing, the wall etc) > Republicans scramble to deliver something which sticks to the right-wing principles but doesn’t lose them votes > they inevitably fail.
The question is whether they just suffer through these next four years of dissapointing Trump voters who believed his improbable rhetoric, or if it gets so bad that they start to push him out, they’ll certainly have enough rope.
Trump is going to run into the same thing that Obama ran into - Congress won't pass his plan.
Except that Obama's plan was feasible.
He wanted a public option. A government run insurance company that people could go to if they didn't have a better option with their employer or elsewhere.
They could have created that instead of or in addition to the exchanges, which are clunky.
But congress blocked that. (Independent Joe Lieberman demanded there be no public option)
We'll see how Trump handles being told no.
It seems counterintuitive, but if we want the price of medical care to come down to affordable levels, we need to have fewer people insured, not more, and for future insurance policies to cover fewer things. Health insurance as we know it today would likely not exist without the tax incentives that manipulate people to buy it through an employer with pre-tax dollars. We need to simplify the tax code and eliminate the exemptions for income spent on health insurance purchase through an employer. With few people insured, the free market would force proprietors to lower their prices and streamline their practices in order to stay in business. It would force them to find ways to be more efficient. But such positive changes are only possible if we reject the idea that medical care is a "human right" that the government must fulfill. The idea that we must have full socialized medicine just because other countries do is the lowest. most anti-intellectual argument possible.
Dr. Reality wrote:
It seems counterintuitive, but if we want the price of medical care to come down to affordable levels, we need to have fewer people insured, not more, and for future insurance policies to cover fewer things. Health insurance as we know it today would likely not exist without the tax incentives that manipulate people to buy it through an employer with pre-tax dollars. We need to simplify the tax code and eliminate the exemptions for income spent on health insurance purchase through an employer. With few people insured, the free market would force proprietors to lower their prices and streamline their practices in order to stay in business. It would force them to find ways to be more efficient. But such positive changes are only possible if we reject the idea that medical care is a "human right" that the government must fulfill. The idea that we must have full socialized medicine just because other countries do is the lowest. most anti-intellectual argument possible.
We do need to accept that affordable healthcare insurance needs to cover fewer things. The more things it covers, the more it will cost. For most people this will make the most sense and will be largely transparent. It becomes an issue for the unfortunate few who encounter catastrophic health conditions.
The conundrum for HC insurers is that risk is virtually unbounded. They are expected to cover all situations regardless of cost or circumstance.
Obamacare has imploded....It's a proven failure.
is it? by what measure? can you show the proof please.
Oh hey there - just a reminder of this splendid thread on barbette from back when Trump was king of the world. Makes interesting reading, turns out you we doubters were dead right about the impossible nature of what had been promised. It's worth a quick read after this week. I'll accept the apologies if right wing nuts below!
Dead in the water, the plan shelved, and with good reason, because the freedom caucus wanted no one covered and the so-called moderates knew they'd be out of office if they voted for this. They somehow made it even worse with the compromises, so that repeal would mean more people insured than would passing one of those republican bills. 24 million fewer people insured was just a start. Remember that the real agenda all along was to cut taxes on the rich, all the rest was just window-dressing for elections.
Richmond Runner wrote:
Oh hey there - just a reminder of this splendid thread on barbette from back when Trump was king of the world. Makes interesting reading, turns out you we doubters were dead right about the impossible nature of what had been promised. It's worth a quick read after this week. I'll accept the apologies if right wing nuts below!
LOL!!!!
exthrower wrote:
He's been in office 2 months...lol....already done more good than Obama did in 8 years!
this is the kind of stupidity that keeps dems from taking repubs seriously.
eric a blair wrote:
exthrower wrote:He's been in office 2 months...lol....already done more good than Obama did in 8 years!
this is the kind of stupidity that keeps dems from taking repubs seriously.
And this is the kind of stupidity that keeps reps from taking dems seriously.
What are you? in 4th grade?
Do you not realize that many of those who voted for Trump felt the same despair and injustice you are feeling now during the Obama years?
For them, this is vindication and relief after 8 years of banishment from political discourse. How do you expect them to sympathize with your position when you so completely ignored their position for so many years?
Are you that insolated from those in society who have different beliefs than you? You who preach the value of diversity?
Back at you wrote:
eric a blair wrote:this is the kind of stupidity that keeps dems from taking repubs seriously.
And this is the kind of stupidity that keeps reps from taking dems seriously.
What are you? in 4th grade?
Do you not realize that many of those who voted for Trump felt the same despair and injustice you are feeling now during the Obama years?
For them, this is vindication and relief after 8 years of banishment from political discourse. How do you expect them to sympathize with your position when you so completely ignored their position for so many years?
Are you that insolated from those in society who have different beliefs than you? You who preach the value of diversity?
honestly, unless you are more specific I can't answer.
But exthrower's statement is factually stupid.
Obama's policies saved the nation from the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. He reformed national healthcare, getting the percent of uninsured down to the lowest levels ever and lowering the rate of increase of health costs. He ended two wars. We've had the longest streak of job creation ever. We have had the best performing stock market of any major economy over the last few years. Crime has fallen to generational lows. Inflation is low. Gas is cheap. Environment is improving. The world's opinion of the US improved.
I mean saying that trump's two sort of major accomplishments - a supreme court nominee (not even confirmed) and backign out of the TPP - are equal to all that is completely stupid.
It's stupid and not defendable.
Now if you want to come up with some specifics, changing the subject, fine, w can debate them.
eric a blair wrote:
Obama's policies... He ended two wars..
He didn't end two wars. We are still fighting in both those places.
Plus bombing in a bunch of others as well.
Winchester Mystery House wrote:
What are their plans? Do they even have any?
Tell us the dem's plan to fix Obamacare? Seriously.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
eric a blair wrote:Obama's policies... He ended two wars..
He didn't end two wars. We are still fighting in both those places.
Plus bombing in a bunch of others as well.
come on man
if I said he ended major operations in two wars would you be happy? Doesnt' change anything.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/297150-dems-to-gop-help-us-fix-obamacarehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-had-a-good-plan-to-fix-obamacare_us_58d6acebe4b0c0980ac0e6b1http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/4-different-ways-democrats-can-save-obamacare.htmlJohn Utah wrote:
Winchester Mystery House wrote:What are their plans? Do they even have any?
Tell us the dem's plan to fix Obamacare? Seriously.
google is your friend
Back at you wrote:
eric a blair wrote:this is the kind of stupidity that keeps dems from taking repubs seriously.
And this is the kind of stupidity that keeps reps from taking dems seriously.
What are you? in 4th grade?
Do you not realize that many of those who voted for Trump felt the same despair and injustice you are feeling now during the Obama years?
For them, this is vindication and relief after 8 years of banishment from political discourse. How do you expect them to sympathize with your position when you so completely ignored their position for so many years?
Are you that insolated from those in society who have different beliefs than you? You who preach the value of diversity?
Bahahaha. You must be new here... Coming to the aid of exthrower, one of the dumbest and most cowardly posters on this board (and that's saying something!)
What the racist (exthrower) said did not deserve a response of intelligence because, get this, it was that unintelligent. You'll see this over and over again in his posts as you become accustomed to the boards.
Winchester Mystery House wrote:
What are their plans? Do they even have any?
Trump stated his plan on Friday. Let Obamacare crash and burn. Either you're with him, or you die. This is the sort of strong leadership this country yearns for at this moment.
donlovespooty wrote:
Winchester Mystery House wrote:What are their plans? Do they even have any?
Trump stated his plan on Friday. Let Obamacare crash and burn. Either you're with him, or you die. This is the sort of strong leadership this country yearns for at this moment.
Nope. Here's his plan...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJfKdp3bDs...combine that with his exact, carbon copy of Bush type tax cuts with massive increases in defense spending and we've got ourselves a winner! I mean, nothing bad happened afte Bush increased military spending and simultaneously cut taxes and regulations did it? I suppose the economy collapsed but we all know that was totally OBUMMER'S fault!