2016 Men's Marathon Rankings controversy - Where should Galen Rupp be ranked?

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  • LetsRun.com
    your benevolent dictator
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 11:45am CST
    Forum Index
    We've worked very hard and spent a lot of time on our year-end rankings. For the men's marathon, we are taking a mini break and publishing the rankings that our friend David Graham sent us as they are very well done and we've got New Year's eve parties to attend.

    You can read them here.

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/12/2016-lrc-year-end-rankings-mens-marathon-eliud-kipchoge-caps-historic-year-world-1-breakout-marathon-star-galen-rupp-leads-americans/

    We only have one major problem with the rankings. He has Galen Rupp ranked #4 which we think is way too high.

    We think Rupp should be ranked no higher than #6 and maybe should be as low as #8 or #9. In all honesty, it's hard for an American to be ranked really high an Olympic year as they have to run the Trials which isn't that hard for an internationally competitive marathoner to win (so we don't give him a lot of credit for that), but we don't see how anyone could possibly think Rupp could be ranked ahead of Wilson Kipsang (2nd in Berlin in 2:03:13) or Ghirmay Ghebreslassie (NYC champ and 4th in Rio and London). The highest we'd rank Rupp is #6 but also think he could be as low as #8 or #9 as David's #8 Lemi Berhanu Hayle won Boston and ran 2:04:33 in Dubai and David's #7 Tesfaye Abera won Dubai (in 2:04:24) and Hamburg.

    Here is a snapshot of David's rankings.

    1. Eliud Kipchoge, Kenya, 32 years old - (London, 1st, 2:03:05/Rio Olympics, 1st, 2:08:44)
    2. Kenenisa Bekele, Ethiopia, 34 years old - (London, 3rd, 2:06:36/Berlin, 1st, 2:03:03)
    3. Feyisa Lilesa, Ethiopia, 26 years old - (Tokyo, 1st, 2:06:56/Rio Olympics, 2nd, 2:09:54/Honolulu, 4th, 2:15:56)
    4. Galen Rupp, USA, 30 years old - (LA U.S. Olympic Trials, 1st, 2:11:12/Rio Olympics, 3rd, 2:10:05)
    5. Ghirmay Ghebreslassie, Eritrea, 21 years old - (London, 4th 2:07:46/Rio Olympics, 4th, 2:11:04/New York City, 1st, 2:07:51)
    6. Wilson Kipsang, Kenya, 34 years old - (London, 5th, 2:07:52/Berlin, 2nd, 2:03:13)
    7. Tesfaye Abera, Ethiopia, 24 years old - (Dubai, 1st, 2:04:24/Hamburg, 1st, 2:06:58/Rio Olympics, DNF)
    8. Lemi Berhanu Hayle, Ethiopia, 22 years old - (Dubai, 2nd, 2:04:33/Boston, 1st, 2:12:45/Rio Olympics, 13th, 2:13:29)
    9. Evans Chebet, Kenya, 28 years old - (Seoul, 2nd, 2:05:33/Berlin, 3rd, 2:05:31)
    10. Stanley Biwott, Kenya, 30 years old - (London, 2nd, 2:03:51/Rio Olympics, DNF/New York City, DNF)

    Here are our revised rankings (the 2nd number is where David has them). Should we keep Rupp at #6 or move him down even further?

    1. 1. Eliud Kipchoge, Kenya, 32 years old - (London, 1st, 2:03:05/Rio Olympics, 1st, 2:08:44)
    2. 2. Kenenisa Bekele, Ethiopia, 34 years old - (London, 3rd, 2:06:36/Berlin, 1st, 2:03:03)
    3. 3. Feyisa Lilesa, Ethiopia, 26 years old - (Tokyo, 1st, 2:06:56/Rio Olympics, 2nd, 2:09:54/Honolulu, 4th, 2:15:56)
    4. 5. Ghirmay Ghebreslassie, Eritrea, 21 years old - (London, 4th 2:07:46/Rio Olympics, 4th, 2:11:04/New York City, 1st, 2:07:51)
    5. 6. Wilson Kipsang, Kenya, 34 years old - (London, 5th, 2:07:52/Berlin, 2nd, 2:03:13)
    6. 4. Galen Rupp, USA, 30 years old - (LA U.S. Olympic Trials, 1st, 2:11:12/Rio Olympics, 3rd, 2:10:05) –
    7. 8. Lemi Berhanu Hayle, Ethiopia, 22 years old - (Dubai, 2nd, 2:04:33/Boston, 1st, 2:12:45/Rio Olympics, 13th, 2:13:29)
    8. 7. Tesfaye Abera, Ethiopia, 24 years old - (Dubai, 1st, 2:04:24/Hamburg, 1st, 2:06:58/Rio Olympics, DNF) –
    9. 9. Evans Chebet, Kenya, 28 years old - (Seoul, 2nd, 2:05:33/Berlin, 3rd, 2:05:31)
    10. 10. Stanley Biwott, Kenya, 30 years old - (London, 2nd, 2:03:51/Rio Olympics, DNF/New York City, DNF)
  • Eggnogger jogger
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 5:23pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    Rupp did beat Ghirmay Ghebreslassie by over a minute in rio which should count for something. Rupp never ran a fast marathon which does count for something but he only ran in hot weather in non paced marathons. I would rank him 4th or 5th
  • ericzeiberg
    registered
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 5:35pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    Too early to rank him accurately. Let's wait for Boston and see how he does there, then it will be easier to rank him.

    For the moment though, having him be 6th is fine.
  • end of discussion.........
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 7:15pm CST
    re: ericzeiberg
    Forum Index
    In an OLYMPIC year, there is only ONE race that matters.

    Rupp should be ranked 3rd!

    Save the time trial races for the other 3 years.
  • Queens Queens
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 8:24pm CST
    re: end of discussion.........
    Forum Index
    Geb should be ahead of Rupp. 4th in London is super impressive, behind three studs. While he lost to Rupp in Rio, he backed it up with an impressive and fast NYC win.
  • HoBros
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 9:30pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    No one gives a shit about your rankings. Theyre irrelevant. Only track and field news rankings matter
  • Hhhgrecess
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 9:52pm CST
    re: HoBros
    Forum Index
    Eliud
    KB
    Wilson
    Feyisa
    Rupp
  • scorpion_runner
    3 years ago 12/31/2016 10:09pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    To see Rupp ranked with not a single time under 2:10 is beyond hysterical...He shouldn't even be in the top 10, and all because he came in third place in the Olympics? The Olympic marathon is like soccer in the Olympics, it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously.

    And to see him ranked higher than Kipsang?? Kipsang ran 2:03 in Berlin and 2:05 in london, and he battle the great Bekele.
  • Not a Brundage fan
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 12:56am CST
    re: scorpion_runner
    Forum Index
    scorpion_runner wrote:

    , it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously..

    Now THAT is hysterical. There are a few elites who might say they would rather have a WR, but the majority will say an Olympic medal is forever. I believe the large majority would ranked Olympic medal of any colour as their number one motivation. VERY poor analogy with soccer. Yes, with golf, tennis, cycling... other events are more prestigious, but with respect to athletics the Olympics are the pinnacle.
  • Jefe in the CO
    registered
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 10:28am CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    If Rupp is no better than sixth and maybe as high as eighth then Centrowitz has no business being one.

    Especially in the marathon, discounting a Championship race in the heat versus a rabbitted race is ridiculous.

    Has your Rupp goggles so clouded your objectivity that you're willing to go against everything you believe in?

    I say a good solid 3.
  • Spaghettimonster
    registered
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 11:12am CST
    re: scorpion_runner
    Forum Index
    scorpion_runner wrote:

    To see Rupp ranked with not a single time under 2:10 is beyond hysterical...He shouldn't even be in the top 10, and all because he came in third place in the Olympics? The Olympic marathon is like soccer in the Olympics, it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously.

    And to see him ranked higher than Kipsang?? Kipsang ran 2:03 in Berlin and 2:05 in london, and he battle the great Bekele.

    Might be the least intelligent argument I've ever heard. Rupp may not have dropped a fast time yet, but he beat several 2:04 guys and MANY 2:05 guys for his bronze. If you want, you can take his 2:10 as his actual ability, but you would be an idiot to do so. Hell, he easily put away the reigning world champ who went on to win NY in a very solid 2:07. Rupp will run 2:05 minimum when he gets to London or Berlin or perhaps even Chicago. And he is the favorite to win Boston. Like are you actually suggesting that the olympic bronze medallist not be considered top ten in the world? I think an argument can be made for Kipsang being ahead because of the remarkable time, but Geb has no business being ahead based on his performance at the olympics. I don't know who would have won in NY but Oly>NY. God I hate having to defend Rupp but your post was so proudly ignorant.
  • Bib #1
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 1:20pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    Kawauchi had a better marathoning year than Rupp
  • scorpion_runner
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:39pm CST
    re: Not a Brundage fan
    Forum Index
    Not a Brundage fan wrote:

    scorpion_runner wrote:

    , it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously..

    Now THAT is hysterical. There are a few elites who might say they would rather have a WR, but the majority will say an Olympic medal is forever. I believe the large majority would ranked Olympic medal of any colour as their number one motivation. VERY poor analogy with soccer. Yes, with golf, tennis, cycling... other events are more prestigious, but with respect to athletics the Olympics are the pinnacle.


    No country takes the olympics seriously when it comes to soccer, except brasil.

    spain,germany, france, england,etc, etc, ...do not care about soccer in the olympics ...What matter to those countries is the Euro Cup and World Cup.

    I have been watching soccer since I was a kid, and those countries don't care about being olympic champions.....because for one, they don't SEND THEIR BEST PLAYERS, because it is an Under-23(age) event.
  • Hang in there
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:42pm CST
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    Very impressive year for Americns.

    A guy runs 2:11:20 and is only our 10th bes t American. Things are looking up.
  • Jaminness
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:45pm CST
    re: scorpion_runner
    Forum Index
    scorpion_runner wrote:

    Not a Brundage fan wrote:

    scorpion_runner wrote:

    , it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously..

    Now THAT is hysterical. There are a few elites who might say they would rather have a WR, but the majority will say an Olympic medal is forever. I believe the large majority would ranked Olympic medal of any colour as their number one motivation. VERY poor analogy with soccer. Yes, with golf, tennis, cycling... other events are more prestigious, but with respect to athletics the Olympics are the pinnacle.


    No country takes the olympics seriously when it comes to soccer, except brasil.

    spain,germany, france, england,etc, etc, ...do not care about soccer in the olympics ...What matter to those countries is the Euro Cup and World Cup.

    I have been watching soccer since I was a kid, and those countries don't care about being olympic champions.....because for one, they don't SEND THEIR BEST PLAYERS, because it is an Under-23(age) event.


    That is what he just said....
  • scorpion_runner
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:47pm CST
    re: Jaminness
    Forum Index
    Jaminness wrote:

    scorpion_runner wrote:

    Not a Brundage fan wrote:

    scorpion_runner wrote:

    , it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously..

    Now THAT is hysterical. There are a few elites who might say they would rather have a WR, but the majority will say an Olympic medal is forever. I believe the large majority would ranked Olympic medal of any colour as their number one motivation. VERY poor analogy with soccer. Yes, with golf, tennis, cycling... other events are more prestigious, but with respect to athletics the Olympics are the pinnacle.


    No country takes the olympics seriously when it comes to soccer, except brasil.

    spain,germany, france, england,etc, etc, ...do not care about soccer in the olympics ...What matter to those countries is the Euro Cup and World Cup.

    I have been watching soccer since I was a kid, and those countries don't care about being olympic champions.....because for one, they don't SEND THEIR BEST PLAYERS, because it is an Under-23(age) event.


    That is what he just said....


    Sorry about that ..oversight on my part.
  • scorpion_runner
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:49pm CST
    re: Spaghettimonster
    Forum Index
    I can't take you seriously because you think Rupp is going to run 2:05 in london. It's not happening. He is a 2:08 guy at best.

    Only 10 american runners have run under 2:10, and only 2 have run under 2:05 ( Khalid and Hall).....and Rupp is not touching Khalid or Hall. Rupp tops out at 2:07 or 2:08, unless he goes in Juiced to the Gills.

    I like Rupp, but Rupp should not be in that top 10, especially over all the other runners in the list

    And Geb? First all he is 20! So you mean to tell me that Rupp had a better year than a 20 year old who won the New York Marathon in 2:07, and came in fourth in the london marathon in 2:07?

    stop the madness.
  • scorpion_runner
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 9:51pm CST
    re: Spaghettimonster
    Forum Index
    Spaghettimonster wrote:

    scorpion_runner wrote:

    To see Rupp ranked with not a single time under 2:10 is beyond hysterical...He shouldn't even be in the top 10, and all because he came in third place in the Olympics? The Olympic marathon is like soccer in the Olympics, it is not on the level of other competitions. No one takes it seriously.

    And to see him ranked higher than Kipsang?? Kipsang ran 2:03 in Berlin and 2:05 in london, and he battle the great Bekele.

    Might be the least intelligent argument I've ever heard. Rupp may not have dropped a fast time yet, but he beat several 2:04 guys and MANY 2:05 guys for his bronze. If you want, you can take his 2:10 as his actual ability, but you would be an idiot to do so. Hell, he easily put away the reigning world champ who went on to win NY in a very solid 2:07. Rupp will run 2:05 minimum when he gets to London or Berlin or perhaps even Chicago. And he is the favorite to win Boston. Like are you actually suggesting that the olympic bronze medallist not be considered top ten in the world? I think an argument can be made for Kipsang being ahead because of the remarkable time, but Geb has no business being ahead based on his performance at the olympics. I don't know who would have won in NY but Oly>NY. God I hate having to defend Rupp but your post was so proudly ignorant.


    I can't take you seriously because you think Rupp is going to run 2:05 in london. It's not happening. He is a 2:08 guy at best.

    Only 10 american runners have run under 2:10, and only 2 have run under 2:05 ( Khalid and Hall).....and Rupp is not touching Khalid or Hall. Rupp tops out at 2:07 or 2:08, unless he goes in Juiced to the Gills.

    I like Rupp, but Rupp should not be in that top 10, especially over all the other runners on the list

    And Geb? First of all he is 20! So you mean to tell me that Rupp had a better year than a 20 year old who won the New York Marathon in 2:07, and came in fourth in the london marathon in 2:07?

    stop the madness.
  • True Data
    3 years ago 01/01/2017 11:39pm CST
    re: scorpion_runner
    Forum Index
    Funny.

    Racing counts.

    Medals are forever.

    The running world is full of those who choke on the big stage.

    Oh, Pre is one of them.

    Rupp deserves his ranking.
  • Ran Dumb Faxs
    3 years ago 01/02/2017 12:32am CST
    re: True Data
    Forum Index
    There were NINE marathons in 2016 where a 2:08 32 was too slow for a podium finish and one where 2:08 :34 would have gotten you a NINTH PLACE check.

    50 men ran under 2:09:00
    2:09 did not make the top 30 Kenyans list