Looking for course advice.
Is there always a headwind?
Anyone run both New York and Philly? Findmymarathon.com says NYC is only 9 seconds slower than the Philly course, which is better than most people lead me to believe.
Is Central Park that bad? The elevation chart doesn't look too terrible but people insist it is.
Did you positive split? Negative split? Plan to do so?
Last year there was a tailwind for most of the race as the wind was coming from the southwest. It was a headwind once leaving the bronx.
Central Park isn't bad, it's the hill right before you get into Central Park that is bad. It seems to last forever and it happens right when you are starting to really hurt at mile 23. It's not steep, like you hardly notice it if you are running there not during the marathon, but it sucks.
I've run NYC twice and Philly once. For non-elites, I would guess NYC is a minute or two slower. Philly has 2 significant hills at like mile 7 and 9 or something, and that's it. Plus it is more open to allow running good tangents.
NYC is of course crowded. The biggest climb is the first mile. Go extra conservative I've the Verrazano. You will feel fresh and excited at the beginning, but if you don't take it easy there you will pay for it later and wonder why you feel like crap at mile 20. The QB at mile 16 will be a mental test and good gauge on how much energy you have for the final 10 as you make that climb. Last year I went too fast in first half. I knew I'd be in trouble as I came down the other side of the QB and noticed my calves felt a bit tight.
1st Ave will pump you up with the energy of the crowds, but don't get to excited. You still need to same some for 5th Ave and Central Park. As stated in post above, the climb up 5th ave before entering the park is a grind. It's not terribly steep, but is long and tough coming at about mile 23. There are rolling hills in the park. If you've paced good, you'll be picking people off. At that point you just need to dig deep and tough it out because you're almost there. Central Park South will seem like the longest block youve ever run. Then you turn back into the park for the finish. There's an up hill before the finish but you'll hardly notice that because you know you are there. Then boom, theres the finish line.
Enjoy! It's an awesome race.
How would you compare the course difficulty with Twin Cities?
(FWIW, I should be around 2:30, so I'm not too worried about the crowds messing up my tangents. Rather, I'm excited that I might actually have a few people to run with. My pace leaves me pretty lonely in most races. Way behind the leaders and often without another soul in sight.)
I did it the past two years, taking a break this year from going from one marathon to the next. 2014 was 38 degrees with insane (40 mph?) wind, and I ran a fantastic first marathon (3:34). Last year was 60, humid, overcast and not windy, and I just had no desire to do it at all (3:48 or something. I don't even know!). If there is wind, there are so many people running that it's easy to draft. The worst wind will be on the Verrazano, and that's when you're fresh. I live in NYC and am very familiar with the course. Perhaps too familiar. I think it's a great idea to have a handle of what you're getting into, but there are so many intricacies and nuances, you can't overthink it. It's not like Boston where you know where the worst part is, or a race like New Jersey that is a selightfully flat. I have not negative split in a marathon, and I honestly don't think that NYC is a course that would allow for most of its runners to do so. I personally think that it's harder than Boston is (and I ran Boston this year, with the heat).
Here's a little insight: The entire stretch of Lafayette Ave (mile 8) is a steady, long incline. It doesn't look like much, but it will tire you out if you're not careful. Then in leading up to the Queensborough, the stretch up Manhattan ave is again, a long steady incline followed by a decent haul over the Pulaski bridge at the half. Queensborough is what it is. Annoying. Quiet. If you've done your strength training, it will still hurt, but you'll survive. Use it to take time to fuel. Don't pay attention to your watch, it'll go wonky. First ave is a delightful, energy-filled, downhill gift. But bank some speed and save yourself for the crossing over the 138 st bridge, around mile 18-19. Central Park isn't too bad- more rolling hills than anything else, but if you didn't run smart, they will wear you down so late in the game. I agree with the poster who said that the lead-in to Central Park, as you're running down 5th ave from the Harlem, is not pleasant at mile 23. In 2014, the wind was coming from the northwest-ish, and literally slammed into my side as I was attempting to run up that incline. It was probably the hardest thing I have ever done in a race. However, that was then, I survived, and my job here is not to freak you out. Once you get into the park, the crowds are nuts, and it's beautiful with the foliage and all of the banners. The finish is one of the nicest downhills in the park. It's insanely exciting and one of the best NYC experiences you could ever have, native dweller or not. Run smart, listen to your body, and just take it all in. I am getting goosebumps just writing about it.
Verranzanoed wrote:
Looking for course advice.
Is there always a headwind?
Anyone run both New York and Philly? Findmymarathon.com says NYC is only 9 seconds slower than the Philly course, which is better than most people lead me to believe.
Is Central Park that bad? The elevation chart doesn't look too terrible but people insist it is.
Did you positive split? Negative split? Plan to do so?
I've run both and they are not too different. Philly has a new course this year and it looks to be a more difficult than last year's course. So there is probably less difference. Maybe that's where findmymarathon is coming from.
ThatGirl had a good synopsis of NYC. My advice is to ease out of the gate. It's too easy to bang out some fast miles after the bridge. If you're out fast, you'll pay for it in the Park. The Park is not bad, it just comes late in the race. It's like Heartbreak in Boston. That's not a bad hill, it just comes at a bad part of the race if you paced the first part poorly. The Park is the sme way.
I ran New York City two or three years ago the year that it was really windy but the temperatures were perfect so I think that made up for the wind… It was a little bit crazy but you could find yourself in a group I'm sure it cost a couple minutes but it wasn't as bad as I thought definitely the wind combined with a few of the hills sucked that's when you really noticed it but again overall up until about mile 20 it wasn't a problem but definitely starting to wear on you mentally about the Bronx...I think a little extra horsepower made the early Hills and wind not that annoying ......but obviously when I started to run out of steam it was a pretty miserable last six or 8 miles in someways.....
Great course tons of people to run with you'll have plenty a company in at 2:30 area at least till the halfway point it'll probably blow part massively at about 15 miles....
I certainly wouldn't say the course is slow and I certainly wouldn't say the course is fast it's challenging but none of the hills of that big and none of the down hills are even noticeable on your quads… So you can pretty much cruise along and even split mentally be ready for the Bronx and it definitely gets hard that's why I started seeing people walking which is pretty funny because some of them were skinny Kenyans...and a few overzealous people that I saw start ripping around mile 1314 15 they got humbled somewhere between 16 and 18...
Have fun a great amazing race definitely a marathon worth the trip!
Any chance a gps watch will actually work in NYC?
My fitness is marginal and I really want to make sure I'm running within my fitness the first 1/2.
Coffee Black wrote:
Any chance a gps watch will actually work in NYC?
My fitness is marginal and I really want to make sure I'm running within my fitness the first 1/2.
It will work fine. If you're lower level of the Verrazano (Green start) it might be a little flakey those first 2 miles, but that's it. Run on left near outside of bridge and you'll be fine.
Coffee Black wrote:
Any chance a gps watch will actually work in NYC?
My fitness is marginal and I really want to make sure I'm running within my fitness the first 1/2.
Mine went wonky in the Bronx last year. I think because of the turning. Said I was running faster than I was and screwed with my head a bit.
MEL Rnr wrote:
Coffee Black wrote:Any chance a gps watch will actually work in NYC?
My fitness is marginal and I really want to make sure I'm running within my fitness the first 1/2.
It will work fine. If you're lower level of the Verrazano (Green start) it might be a little flakey those first 2 miles, but that's it. Run on left near outside of bridge and you'll be fine.
I didn't even realize people started on the lower level. Doesn't that mean their race has a significantly tougher elevation profile?
Can't you just manually hit splits every km or mile to get an accurate pace?
Another first timer wrote:
MEL Rnr wrote:It will work fine. If you're lower level of the Verrazano (Green start) it might be a little flakey those first 2 miles, but that's it. Run on left near outside of bridge and you'll be fine.
I didn't even realize people started on the lower level. Doesn't that mean their race has a significantly tougher elevation profile?
No, not tougher. If anything, a few feet less elevation on the bottom, but I don't think it is at all significant. There are 3 start positions for each wave (Blue, Orange and Green), because they use 3 of the 4 roadways on the VZ bridge. The pros are at the front of the Blue start. They all run separately for the first 3 miles. At 4th Ave in Brooklyn, they come together with Blue and Green on the right side of 4th Ave and Orange is on the left side of 4th Ave.
Advice: Warm up BEFORE going into your corral and get there early!
I've run NYC twice. Last year was my first time starting with the masses. I thought we (my friend and I) could warm up in the corral. You can run a bit in there, but there's not much room. Plus, everyone seems to be waiting for the porta-potties. Also, there were a shitload of people in our corral. Way more than I could see. Even though our times made us worthy of starting in the front of our group, we were mixed amongst EVERYONE in our wave. In the end, it wasn't a big deal, but I'll never forget having to weave around some woman on the uphill of the Verrazano who was taking a GD selfie as she ran.
Queensboro isn't as bad as you'd think, and coming off of the bridge onto 1st Ave is one of the biggest rushes I've ever had. The crowd is NUTS!
The hills in Central Park are tough because your legs are fried by that point.
Have fun and run smart. Pass all the people who went out too hard after Queensboro.
The race starts after Queensboro.
Not too much course diff betw Philly and NYC other than NYC has a kajillion more people on and off the course. I'd give Philly 30 secs faster.
Expect 2-3 minutes slower, at a minimum. Have run both courses. Twin Cities, far more forgiving. My 2 cents. Best of luck!