Apparently the testing program, which will contract with USADA, will cost nearly as much ($100,000) as the NYRR pays out annually to amateurs in its smaller, local races ($130,000).
http://nyti.ms/2e9B3By
Name these "unfashionable neighborhoods" where they live .
What Conceivable wrote:
No, he's not kidding. His runners are for the most part Africans living many to an apartment in unfashionable neighborhoods. Five hundred can go a long way.
NY bagel wrote:
"It takes months for them to pay out $500 in prize money, so it will now take longer,†said William du Pont Staab Jr., the president of the West Side Runners Club. “Our runners, they can use their money for their rent.â€
Pay the rent? He's kidding, right?
I like WSX. They provide opportunities that don't exist in other big cities, or in other big running communities for foreign runners (not just Kenyans and Ethiopians, but recreational runners too). They're not a doping team, like LM Elite, as they have a broad recreational base of participants. But they have several suspicious individuals.
NY bagel wrote:
"It takes months for them to pay out $500 in prize money, so it will now take longer,†said William du Pont Staab Jr., the president of the West Side Runners Club. “Our runners, they can use their money for their rent.â€
Pay the rent? He's kidding, right?
More testing needs to be done on sub-elite runners (Take a look around the NE, and you'll often see runners among the top 5 or top 10 from Hebron and WSX). Good for NYRR for setting the standard, and showing that even low-key races can drug test. There are two-three dozen other races that could take a lesson from this...
Here is his progression:
2012 2:21:09 Frankfurt Marathon
2013 2:24:01 Rotterdam Marathon
2014 2:17:51. Philly Marathon
2015 2:13:42 at Grandma's and now 2:15:40 NYC
2013/2: No other results than the two marathons above.
2014: 64:57 Louisville HM, 30:54 at Healthy Kidney
2015: 48:20 Bronx 10M, 65:03 at Brooklyn RnR (Week before Des Moines Marathon, 3 weeks before NYC)
I wish rigorous testing was put in place across the country. Many of these immigrant runners thrive on these local races that pay $100-3000 Dollars in prize money. You race from late spring through Thanksgiving you can ran in 10s of thousands of dollars. I know a few who in years past pulled in 20-50k.
Clerk wrote:NY bagel wrote:I like WSX. They provide opportunities that don't exist in other big cities, or in other big running communities for foreign runners (not just Kenyans and Ethiopians, but recreational runners too). They're not a doping team, like LM Elite, as they have a broad recreational base of participants. But they have several suspicious individuals.
"It takes months for them to pay out $500 in prize money, so it will now take longer,†said William du Pont Staab Jr., the president of the West Side Runners Club. “Our runners, they can use their money for their rent.â€
Pay the rent? He's kidding, right?
Tesfaye Assefa was banned for not submitting to a doping test. His teammate, Birhanu Kemal, put up the followning progression:More testing needs to be done on sub-elite runners (Take a look around the NE, and you'll often see runners among the top 5 or top 10 from Hebron and WSX). Good for NYRR for setting the standard, and showing that even low-key races can drug test. There are two-three dozen other races that could take a lesson from this...
Here is his progression:
2012 2:21:09 Frankfurt Marathon
2013 2:24:01 Rotterdam Marathon
2014 2:17:51. Philly Marathon
2015 2:13:42 at Grandma's and now 2:15:40 NYC
2013/2: No other results than the two marathons above.
2014: 64:57 Louisville HM, 30:54 at Healthy Kidney
2015: 48:20 Bronx 10M, 65:03 at Brooklyn RnR (Week before Des Moines Marathon, 3 weeks before NYC)
Morrisania and parts north in the Bronx, we have a winner!
What Conceivable wrote:
No, he's not kidding. His runners are for the most part Africans living many to an apartment in unfashionable neighborhoods. Five hundred can go a long way.
It's USADA doing the testing, right? Once they test, NYRR doesn't have any say in what happens or the penalties. It's not NYRR's protocol and they can't collect urine and not test because _they_ aren't the ones collecting, USADA DCOs are.
Bretom wrote:
I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis). False positives happen to professional athletes - the chance of one happening to me seems very small but still much higher. I'll probably sign the waiver and agree to be tested but NYRR should be cognizant of the risk they're exposing true amateurs to, be very confidant in their testing protocol and be prepared to exercise discretion carefully.
More than a valid point. Getting to understand the USADA code and getting TUES is just not a 30 second task. From the excuses the pro use OTC supplements and boosts, gels and assorted whatnots are all rife with chances to accidently ingest banned substances.
Bretom wrote:
Not going to be a popular opinion but I have very mixed feelings about this.
I'm on the bubble for NYRR races - top 40 in their big races (including NYCM), top 15 on their thinner races. I'm much slower than the top WSX and NYAC guys but still competitive. I don't cheat and the thought that the guys I race against may not be competing honorably really spoils my enjoyment of racing. Or it would do, if I let it. Instead I'm happy to assume everyone's playing fair and if I should have finished 24th instead of 26th in any given race well, that's sad but not as sad as life must be for someone who'd cheat in a f*cking amateur road race.
The problem is I'm a full time lawyer and can be struck off for evidence of "moral turpitude" losing, for the sake of a hobby, my only means of supporting myself and my family. I don't live like a professional athlete. I eat whatever's put in front of me, drink whatever looks refreshing in a bodega fridge during a long run and will try most any gels or sports drinks. I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis). False positives happen to professional athletes - the chance of one happening to me seems very small but still much higher. I'll probably sign the waiver and agree to be tested but NYRR should be cognizant of the risk they're exposing true amateurs to, be very confidant in their testing protocol and be prepared to exercise discretion carefully.
I respect your opinion and your honesty, but I think that if you are going to compete in this sport and dedicate hours to training, you can dedicate a bit of time to researching and complying with the rules that apply to you.
Bretom wrote:
The problem is I'm a full time lawyer and can be struck off for evidence of "moral turpitude" losing, for the sake of a hobby, my only means of supporting myself and my family. I don't live like a professional athlete. I eat whatever's put in front of me, drink whatever looks refreshing in a bodega fridge during a long run and will try most any gels or sports drinks. I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis).
You're building on a few assumptions that you have no basis for. I know it's not what you meant, but strictly speaking, false positives don't happen. The testing methods and results management process mean that there is a positive test only if a substance was present.
Bretom wrote:... I eat whatever's put in front of me, drink whatever looks refreshing in a bodega fridge during a long run and will try most any gels or sports drinks. I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis). False positives happen to professional athletes - the chance of one happening to me seems very small but still much higher. I'll probably sign the waiver and agree to be tested but NYRR should be cognizant of the risk they're exposing true amateurs to, be very confidant in their testing protocol and be prepared to exercise discretion carefully.
I agree with most of what you wrote and yes, I am, for the most part talking about inadvertant positives (though see the Irish sprinter for a recent example of a true false positive). My point(s) are (1) I'm not going to live a hyper-vigilant quasi-professional life and am not particularly interested in navigating the TUE system if a PCP gives me a completely run of the mill prescription, (2) I also take no comfort in the idea that were I to be popped by NYRR (and doubtless made the news as an example of the important strides they're making in the fight against doping), I'd have lots of expensive, time-consuming appeal rights and (3) any real risk that any of this could happen is not one I can run - personally or professionally.
Clerk wrote:Bretom wrote:... I eat whatever's put in front of me, drink whatever looks refreshing in a bodega fridge during a long run and will try most any gels or sports drinks. I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis). False positives happen to professional athletes - the chance of one happening to me seems very small but still much higher. I'll probably sign the waiver and agree to be tested but NYRR should be cognizant of the risk they're exposing true amateurs to, be very confidant in their testing protocol and be prepared to exercise discretion carefully.You're building on a few assumptions that you have no basis for. I know it's not what you meant, but strictly speaking, false positives don't happen. The testing methods and results management process mean that there is a positive test only if a substance was present.
What you're talking about is no-fault or negligent ADRV (rule violations). Yes, there are probably legitimate cases where athletes did not mean to take a PED. But then the results management, appeal, and arbitration process step in. These cases are what are informing your idea that so many athletes face "false positives". But the system is designed exactly for that purpose, so much that doping athletes can easily hide behind the procedures laid out to make their doping appear as no-fault cases.
With regard to your responsibility, you may not like it, but that is absolutely your responsibility as an athlete, the same way it is a driver's responsibility to know how much alcohol they've consumed, or to know how the weather conditions effect the driving situation.
You write as if this drug testing is some new fangled idea put out by the local homeowners association. The system has been in place for years, and is constantly being refined.
It's worth checking - might have been totally legal. Many oral corticosteroids are legal out of competition, though not in. The rules are not as onerous as people think, when you actually read them.
Bretom wrote:
You're probably right. I could do this, the question is do I want to? I know that sounds petulant and NYRR races are, obviously, NYRR's sandbox. I just never imagined that something I do for fun might require the sort of diligence and care that we expect as the cost of doing this sport professionally.
To give an example, the last medicine I look - about 6 months ago - was steroidal but I guarantee was not performance enhancing. In fact it was very embarrassing and the only PRs I set were to and from the bathroom. I've no idea if I would have tested positive in that period and I never had reason to care. Legitimate medical need, no intent to cheat and no benefit I could perceive.
Agree. I'll be hitting my 40s in a couple of years and have no interest in any of that BS. If I ever change my mind I'll quietly step away from competitive sport whether a TUE is available or not.
darkwave wrote:Bretom wrote:It's worth checking - might have been totally legal. Many oral corticosteroids are legal out of competition, though not in. The rules are not as onerous as people think, when you actually read them.
You're probably right. I could do this, the question is do I want to? I know that sounds petulant and NYRR races are, obviously, NYRR's sandbox. I just never imagined that something I do for fun might require the sort of diligence and care that we expect as the cost of doing this sport professionally.
To give an example, the last medicine I look - about 6 months ago - was steroidal but I guarantee was not performance enhancing. In fact it was very embarrassing and the only PRs I set were to and from the bathroom. I've no idea if I would have tested positive in that period and I never had reason to care. Legitimate medical need, no intent to cheat and no benefit I could perceive.
And personally, I know that once one enters one's 40s, there's a lot of encouragment to go on "anti-aging drugs" - DHEA, HGH, microscopic amounts of testosterone as part of therapy for menopausal symptoms. And of course, the recipients start feeling great and start running PRs in their mid 40s. And are sure they're not doping because it's not EPO and it's prescribed by a physician for a "medical condition" - aging. I'd really love to see a critical eye, and testing, applied to that.