Bottom-tier DI runners, do you wish you'd gone DIII?

The pressure and expectations of a top-tier DI team are almost certainly bigger than the same at a top-tier DIII team (at least a couple of the top top runners are probably Olympic-quality types or have a chance to make a decent living as a pro).

But if you're at a DI program with no expectations to win your conference or qualify for NCAAs, do you think the expectations are as high as they are at a major DIII program? I imagine the expectations and pressure for a team with a chance to win DIII nationals would be pretty high.

6 pairs of shoes ($600)

And the sticker price on the gear we got was over $1000. This is all per year.

All the travel we got which a lot of smaller schools don't get was a great perk. Meets all over the country. We could have free tutoring if we wanted. Free sports tickets which other students had to pay $300 a year for. Occasional though limited free food options. FREE LAUNDRY DONE FOR YOU!!

I estimate that I netted over $2,500 of free things per year not including airline and hotels and stuff and I didn't get tutoring though that would have been a huge perk for some.

My sister went to a D2 school that went to nationals every year and she got none of this. The most she got for gear was a t shirt every year.

I don't disagree that there are benefits to being at a Division I school - I alluded to that in an earlier post when I wonder if I would have run faster had I started running before college and gone DI.

I was specifically asking about the point that you made about wanting to see if you could cut it against a higher level of competition. For the reasons I mentioned, that doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to me, especially for someone who wasn't good enough to make top 7 of cross country, and thereby missed out on the major meets. That is not meant to be a criticism of your talent - for all I know you were on the tail end of some great Oregon or Arkansas teams and would've beaten me every race. But it does go to the idea that as a D1 athlete you get to prove your mettle in a way that a D3 athlete does not.

As to the idea that D3 teams should beat D1 teams, I never said that the Divisions were equals, although my DIII team would have been an okay D1 team (at various times while I was on the team, my team had DIII national champions at the 110hh, 400ih, 800m, steeplechase, national runners up in the 800, 1500 and 5000, and All Americans at virtually every event, plus #3 finisher at XC nationals). At least 4 of those guys were guys who had D1 offers, but ended up at my school for various reasons.

da da da da da BATMAN!! wrote:

6 pairs of shoes ($600)

And the sticker price on the gear we got was over $1000. This is all per year.

All the travel we got which a lot of smaller schools don't get was a great perk. Meets all over the country. We could have free tutoring if we wanted. Free sports tickets which other students had to pay $300 a year for. Occasional though limited free food options. FREE LAUNDRY DONE FOR YOU!!

I estimate that I netted over $2,500 of free things per year not including airline and hotels and stuff and I didn't get tutoring though that would have been a huge perk for some.

My sister went to a D2 school that went to nationals every year and she got none of this. The most she got for gear was a t shirt every year.

At my decidedly non-power D1 school two decades ago, we didn't get anywhere near that much stuff, and all but our conference meet were more or less local. Some seasons, our only overnight trip was to the conference meet. All others were leave early in the morning, get home late that night.

Besides, I still say free stuff, no matter how extravagant, is a lousy way to pick a school.

And I certainly never had anyone do my laundry for me. I actually laughed at that one.

At my D3 school 20+ years ago, they would wash a cotton practice t-shirt and a jock strap if you put it in a bag and dropped it off with the equipment manager. Who wears a jock strap?

Nope. I was a D1 walk on and I loved every minute of it. I made the seven man conference roster by working my butt off. I would have been second on the team as a frosh at the D3 school I was looking at my senior year in HS. I doubt that I would have developed as much as I did if I had not had the goal to make varsity. I improved over 2 minutes on my 5k from HS.

Rip Lips wrote:

Nope. I was a D1 walk on and I loved every minute of it. I made the seven man conference roster by working my butt off. I would have been second on the team as a frosh at the D3 school I was looking at my senior year in HS. I doubt that I would have developed as much as I did if I had not had the goal to make varsity[B/]. I improved over 2 minutes on my 5k from HS.

I think that is the point. DI also-rans goal is to make varsity and they really don't experience much about racing and competing at high level. Running D2 instead of DI allowed me to experience intense pressure to perform, be important to the team advancing to nationals, be known and looked watched at large meets, experiences that I would have never had being an also-ran in DI.

If I was DI, I would have quit, because distance running is too hard and time consuming to be unimportant, a nonfactor in the meet and have your performance mean nothing.

There are hardly any good D2/NAIA schools academically..

Among D1 schools there is a wide range of support and expectations. How can you loop the experiences from someone in the Patriot League to someone who ran in the Pac-10? Riding the pine at Bucknell or Lehigh is very different than at UCLA or Stanford. I'm sure Adams State is also very different than most D3. What you're really asking is would you prefer watered down competition so you could say you won a race.

I went to a school that is regularly top 10 in school and has had a few podiums. I made a couple conference squads in track and my senior year I was 4th in the 1500 on the depth chart with a 3:46. Had four teammates who were national champions and two became olympians. Wouldn't trade that to place in an inferior conference. I also know I got pulled in workouts because I was with strong guys and a good coach.

The biggest difference is academics and the doors opened by attending a D1 school versus D3. To ignore that is ludicrous.

It's not so much proving my mettle as it is knowing that I actually challenged myself.

I failed as a D1 athlete. My training was incredibly hard and over my head as a walk on. I did not do well.

I have no doubt in my mind that I could have been a better runner at D2 or D3 where training suited me more. But I am happy that I actually challenged myself going D1. So I failed but at least I gave it a shot. I would have had doubts had I gone D2 or D3. I lost to many D2 and D3 runners but I knew they would never have the same opportunity as me to race true elites @ conference or NCAAs. I didn't make those meets but at least I had a shot.

And to the other guy. I didn't choose D1 because of the perks and gear. But the question was do I wish I had gone D3 and yeah I enjoyed the perks more so than I would've thought.

And the laundry service is by far the best thing I could ever receive. It was incredible. Changed my life. My friends at D2 had to do laundry twice a week because of the smell of their running clothes. They hated it.

As has been pointed out, there's a HUGE discrepancy within D1. Places like Oregon and Stanford are nothing like Podunk Directional State. At the latter, you're not going to get much gear, overnight travel will be a rare luxury, and laundry service will be unheard of. The positive: you'll have a MUCH better shot of actually running in meets, instead of training with the team, only to sit in your dorm room while your teammates are away at meets.

da da da da da BATMAN!! wrote:

And the laundry service is by far the best thing I could ever receive. It was incredible. Changed my life. My friends at D2 had to do laundry twice a week because of the smell of their running clothes. They hated it.

I went to a D1 that was among the aforementioned "Podunk Directional State" schools, and the thought of the athletic department doing my laundry never entered my mind. I have literally never heard of such a thing.

no name here wrote:

The positive: you'll have a MUCH better shot of actually running in meets, instead of training with the team, only to sit in your dorm room while your teammates are away at meets.

That's the big thing to me. I'd rather be D2 or D3 and get to race every week than to be D1 and never get to run in a meet. In my book, all the free gear in the world wouldn't make up for not getting to race. And I'm fully capable of doing my own laundry.

Yeah, this sounds familiar. When I got a bit better each year, we got one or two stud freshmen who were footlocker champs, etc.. so I was never varsity (plus injuries galore, as i upped the mileage, but the program wasn't "big time" enough to have proper strength and conditioning that would have helped me stay uninjured).

The school was good, but not the ideal fit for my major. I stayed because a) transferring would be a bitch b) I was on full tuition academic scholarship.

I ended up quitting for senior year. Never studied abroad because I always thought "next season is the one" and it never way. I feel if I was at a good D3 school, I would have contributed to the team, ultimately run faster without as much injury, and probably had a better time anyway.

Oh well, I graduated over a decade ago, so transferring probably isn't an option anymore.

I went to a D3 and doing it over again would have went D1. I had options with two excellent D1 schools both with highly respected coaches. I may not have been scholarship level, but had times within the acceptable walk on level (4:15 mile).

Main reason is coaching. At the D3, I was self coached. Our CC coach was new and it was his first coaching job. He was 25 years old and a recent graduate of the school. He was nice but didnt know what he was doing. He made the workouts up in his head when we showed up to practice that day. One of the regular workouts was frisbee football. He was just a big kid, and acted like he was still in college. Screwing around, jumping around, etc..

Had a separate Track coach. One coach for the entire Track team. He was a throws coach and neglected the rest of the team.

We could barely get a 5 person team together for CC. In track, I was the only 1500M guy so mostly trained alone.

So I was a 18 - 21 year old self coached college kid that never developed to my full potential. Graduated D3 at 21 and went out into the working world, so running faded away. I did the the best I could but looking back I wasnt able to coach myself very well. This was several years ago so I had books but not the internet like today.

On another note, we did have a laundry service. It was a mesh bag, you filled it and dropped it off. The next day the bag would be on a hook and you would pick it up. I didnt realize this wasnt the norm!

Went to a NESCAC school instead of DI. Really enjoyed being a "big fish in a small pond" as opposed to being a "small fish in a bigger pond." I had no illusions about my abilities and wanted to experience all the joys of being an active and contributing member of the team. Granted I may have had lesser coaching and competition, but for me, it would have been disappointing and frustrating to do all the hard work and miss out on the big meets, traveling with the team, etc.

eh, went middle tier D1 and hated the school and training style (i came from an amazing HS program) it was very 1970s. Anywho, I got my ass kicked at meets and was so damn frustrated and only got slower. Transferred out after my first year to a top D3 program and just missed 800m nationals by about half a second. I felt happier about running again ( winning feels good) the training better fit my style. YET... missing nats pissed my off so i started to party a lot then ended up getting a 1 year suspension. Quit running for about 6 months and now im back at it, So bottom line if you aint making nats or better just run for your own self and not give a damn about others.

I ran D1 in the mid-1980's. Was the 6-7 guy for a decent Big East team, and got to travel (sometimes) for indoor and outdoor seasons. I worked really hard, as did most of my team, but I just was not close to the guys that really picked their parents well... Of course, that meant I was way back in the pack at Big East Championships (Franklin Field is a miserable place to run) and could not even see the leaders at the 1 mile mark... I loved my school, got a great education and am reasonably successful today. HOWEVER, I think I might have enjoyed my running experience better at D2 or D3 school if I could have at least still seen the lead pack midway through a race! Oh well - we all probably have FAR bigger regrets in life than any regarding our college choice.