What was the main thing you did differently that improved your marathon PR?

don't know, got injured after my first one and may never do another. Perhaps that means you were not soliciting my advice. woops my bad

I ran two marathons on 40-45ish miles a week and ran 3:12.

Then I got more serious and upped the miles:

2004: 2390 miles with a 3 month injury break: 3:03

2005: 3694 miles: 2:52

2006: 4012 miles: 2:47

2007: 4394 miles: DNS (got sick)

I haven't run that high again as I found that 4400 wasn't optimal for me, though I did have a bunch more years where my yearly average was over 75mpw and I got my PR to 2:39.

But for me the biggest gains came from moving from 40mpw to 75mpw as a year average. I tended to sustain 90-100 for the 15-18 weeks pre marathon.

Adding in a medium long run in the middle of the week is a thing I think a lot of people are missing. Maybe 75% total of your Long Run volume done on Wednesday if you do the standard Monday to Sunday schedule. If you can recover from that and still hit key sessions and good Long Runs you're fit.

Increased mileage for the long haul, not just an 18 week program. Basically year-round marathon training (with a down week or two here and there) without running the marathon, 'cept once a year. Big gains.

gavin newsome wrote:

I ran two marathons on 40-45ish miles a week and ran 3:12.

Then I got more serious and upped the miles:

2004: 2390 miles with a 3 month injury break: 3:03

2005: 3694 miles: 2:52

2006: 4012 miles: 2:47

Thanks for the input. I noticed that you ran 9 mins faster in 2005 after a 10 miles per week increase, and 5 mins faster in 2006 after a 6 miles per week increase. So your marathon times dropped by 1 minute for each 1 mileage increase in weekly mileage.

I noticed the same in my training. I had run a 3:05 on 75 mpw, but in the years afterwards I only averaged 33 miles per week (42 miles less) and I ran two maratons in 3:45 and one in 3:48, so about a 3:46 average (41 minutes slower). So I got about a minute slower for each mile I didn't run.

Sounds like its a good rule-of-thumb to increase your mileage 1 mile per week for each minute that you want to run faster!

I did a lot of very long workouts at MP, and I took lots of time to recover after each one, even if it meant I was only doing "quality" work once/week. For example, every other week I did 3x5k, 4x5k, and 5x5k at just a hair faster than MP. On the weeks in between I did 20 mile progressions starting at 30 seconds/mile slower than MP, finishing at MP.

Easy - I went Vegan

Just ran a LOT more and let feel dictate the pace.

Barefoot & vegan diet

1. I changed to more easy miles and less stress on pace/speed, which allowed me to stay healthy longer and go from 3:10 (I really thought that was my plateau for several years) to just under 3:00 then eventually 2:47. Injuries had always been my nemesis.

2. The last few years I also do most of my training fasting, and I strongly believe I get more out of the work outs since I changed. I drink only water while running and like to think I've saved a small fortune on energy drinks/gels compared to my friends.

3. I use a HR monitor, and while it's helpful during work outs, I now find it essential on marathon day to keep me on even pace without the typical bonks I used to have.

4. It also helped when I surprised myself with a 1:20 half; that was the first time I realized I should be aiming at sub 2:50.

Forcerunner wrote:

Adding in a medium long run in the middle of the week is a thing I think a lot of people are missing. Maybe 75% total of your Long Run volume done on Wednesday if you do the standard Monday to Sunday schedule. If you can recover from that and still hit key sessions and good Long Runs you're fit.

Thanks! I'm going to follow that advice exactly and run 15 tonight and then 20 on Sunday.

miles and miles of texas wrote:

...

3. I use a HR monitor, and while it's helpful during work outs, I now find it essential on marathon day to keep me on even pace without the typical bonks I used to have.

4. It also helped when I surprised myself with a 1:20 half; that was the first time I realized I should be aiming at sub 2:50.

How does your heartrate differ from the half to the marathon? I found that I run halfs at about 180 bpm and full marathons at 170 bpm. I looked at my watch during a half last Sunday, and saw that I was only at 168 bpm, so it convinced me to pick up the pace. Do you speed up if you are under a certain bpm and slow down if you are over a certain bpm?

How do you use your HR monitor during the race? Do you keep the HR under a certain percentage of max?

gregmacd wrote:

miles and miles of texas wrote:

...

3. I use a HR monitor, and while it's helpful during work outs, I now find it essential on marathon day to keep me on even pace without the typical bonks I used to have.

4. It also helped when I surprised myself with a 1:20 half; that was the first time I realized I should be aiming at sub 2:50.

How does your heartrate differ from the half to the marathon? I found that I run halfs at about 180 bpm and full marathons at 170 bpm. I looked at my watch during a half last Sunday, and saw that I was only at 168 bpm, so it convinced me to pick up the pace. Do you speed up if you are under a certain bpm and slow down if you are over a certain bpm?

I'll step in for this one; the significance heart rate difference between the two races depends upon whether you have been training with a monitor and know your max HR so that you can know what percentage of max you are running.

The 168 may have been evidence that you are getting more fit at that effort or it may have been simply that the weather was cooler.

Easy, went vegan, ran barefoot, freebled and got a ride.

Oh, and switched from Marlboros to American Spirit.

More miles. More MP during long runs and MP paced medium long run workouts during the week. Extending specific endurance is the name of the game for the marathon.

I started pftiz's formula, but it gave me a range of HRs. It took me a couple marathons to find out my target marathon HR I can sustain without bonking. For me, it's 160. I ramp up for 2-3 miles, then I try to average 160 through 20 miles. It will spike on uphills but I try not to worry too much. Once I get to 20 miles I give myself permission to let the HR drift upward; sometimes I can push it and run a negative split, sometimes I can't.

My half HR is around 170, though because the penalty for bonking isn't nearly as severe for a half compare to a marathon, I'm not usually as disciplined.

Healthier diet (drank less, tried to eat out less)

More diligence in core work (pushups and situps)

Got away from intervals and focused on a long fartlek during the week and a good long run with a lot of MP miles on the weekend

Precious Roy wrote:

More miles. More MP during long runs and MP paced medium long run workouts during the week. Extending specific endurance is the name of the game for the marathon.

This, but not just MP. I thought it was very useful to have long workouts at about 10-15 seconds per mile slower than MP, and some faster long rep workouts (e.g. 4x5k) at about 5-10 seconds per mile faster than MP.

It's still pretty marathon specific stuff, but working at the goal from a little bit on either side. I think this is particularly valuable when MP isn't quite MP yet. The work just a bit to either side seems to help get me there a little more assuredly.