For High School Coaches - At What Distances and How Often Do You Let Your Athletes Double??

If the coach tells her to hold back in the 3200, and she doesn't, then the problem isn't doubling up, the problem is that she's not holding back.

Concerned Parent wrote:

I am not a coach or an expert in running. I am a parent of a pretty good high school freshman (girl). The team is pretty weak and the coach likes her to double in the 1600 and 3200.

She just seems exhausted in that second race. He tells her to hold back in the 3200, as she's usually a lock for the top 3. But her natural comptetiveness takes over and she pushes it to the limit. She's absolutely wiped the next day. I'm not so sure this is good for her. I've tried to get her to approach the coach about this but she just gets mad at me.

What are the expert opinions on this? If it's not smart to do it week in and week out, is it ok to do it once a season, say at a State Championship?

Happens all the time. You're the parent and you should decide if the coach is overdoing it or the coach is a smart person that sees potential in your athlete and is challenging them. Since you say that the team is weak and the coach is depending on a distance freshman, I can guess which one it is.

Lots of athletes double or triple. It increases the chance for injury if they don't have a good base, but you can't get good unless you're willing to take those chances, and if you're unwilling to take them talk to the coach and say that you don't want her doubling or tripling and see how the coach responds. I doubt that the coach is going to pay the medical bills, so don't be passive despite what others on this board might say. You're not an overbearing/interfering parent as long as you deal quietly with the coach and restrict youself to safety issues. If you think the coach is a dumbass find another sport.

Also, if the athlete does not double or triple during the season when you're competing at a lower intensity, how would they be prepared for the higher intensity competition during the state championships?

When my daughter was in 9th grade, she ran the mile against the boys and then the 800 against the girls; with instructions to win the 800 by as little as possible. They didn't have the 3200/3000, but she wasn't doing enough mileage at that time to do a mile/2 mile double without a negative effect on her training. You have to explain to your daughter that cruising the 3200 is the only way that she is going to improve as a runner.

I always tell me runners to just win the race when they have double duty. Some meets where you need the points but not much comp in the dist races this just win attitude can be accomplished. I often have them run them as workouts such as descending splits on the 1600 or 3200. Hammering them both without the mileage base is going to be harmful as the season wheres on however.

Thanks for all the advice. Maybe I'm just being overly cautious. I'll talk with my daughter again. She does have a problem taking it down a notch when necessary.

I really do like the coach and, as far as I know, his credentials are solid.

I have an 8th grade girls who runs the distance events. In the big Invitationals she usaully runs one event and is told to give it her all to try and get a personal best time.

In the local duel and county champ. she doubles and triples but only for placement and points. There are no personal best times. Hang with the pack and then kick it in for the win. I had a hard time with it at first, but talk to the coach and explain what your feeling. They will talk to your daughter and explain what they want from her as a runner.

Good Luck

I coach grades 7-12, i don't let any of them do any of the long doubles (mile-2 mile, ) if points are that important then the coach isn't thinking of the athletes long term development. We do however double with the second race being either the 4x400 or occasionally for the older more established kids the 4x800.

why double? Tell me what high level athlete is running a 1500m and a 3000m within 90min of eachother?

Distance runners should double in the 200m and 400m, 400m and 4x400m, or the 800m and 4x400m.

I should add:

Your can also run races as a workout: ie running the 1500m at 3k pace and then coming back in the 800m at 1500m pace. But don't break the rules.

My daughters have doubled the 1600/3200 at times but it was more common for them to double the 4x800/3200 in some meets and the 1600/800 in others (or even the 1600/4x400) to mix in a little speed work.

I wish I did more of this. I ran 4 years in both high school and college and never ran anything less than an 800m all out. I think every distance runner should know their basic 400m speed.

I have a long-standing rule that freshmen and below run one race that I put them in. They can run a second race if they want to, but it's their option. Often they'll race the 1600 then run the 3200 as a solid workout but not racing.

I have a similiar rule--the second race must be taken down a notch. I have had 11th and 12th graders race 800/1600 or 1600/3200, but only in highly competitive situations and only 2 or 3 times a season. And NEVER for a freshman, boy or girl.

It's different if you have an athlete that will be doing the double in championship meets. In this case, they need to do this at least twice in lower-key meets as a training situation.

I would run 4x800, 800, 400, 4x400. Other guys would do 800 (or 4x800), 1600, 3200.

The only time I would allow a kid to do 1 mile- 2 mile double is if they can win the 2 mile running at tempo pace. If you have a girl that runs 5:10 her tempo run pace would win most 2 mile duel meets.

This question was asked on another post a week or so ago.

It was regarding Arthur Lydiards opinion on this

I posted as follows :

When Arthur Coached his Girls back in late 70's early 80's. They never doubled in a meet. Consequently, you can imagine what they did to a few fields.

However, If one race was on one day and the other the next day he did let a "double" happen occasionally. But it was only to the kids who showed good recovery and had a good background.

He helped me with one of my girls (just 16 at the time) where she ran a 3k on a Saturday and came back with a 4k Road Race on the Sunday.

I asked him well ahead of time whether that was a feasilble option for that athlete and he said Yes.

Interestingly she ran better in the Road race than the 3k.

Many years later that young woman went on to a 2:39 Marathon and a 3rd place in a World Mountain Running Champs.

This is not a tough double. There's plenty of time between races. Athletes should look tired after races.

Hmmm....Are you from NY? Does your daughter run for Saratoga?

Nothing wrong with being concerned. But as you said - coach seems knowledgable etc. There is a trend among some parents to believe distance doubling is bad and should be avoided because it leads to burnout. Well, 1) it depends on the kid (as burnout can be caused by any number of things including pressure from _______: self, parent, coach, etc). So make sure your daughter is not running for you or that you don't become too invovled in her running cause that could lead to the very problem of burnout. 2) in my day we all doubled - every meet and it did not lead to burnout. In fact some kids ran 1600, 800, 3200 and 4X400. Girls too. Weekly and loved it. So I think it depends on the kid. If they dread it - that's not good. If they love it - then leave it alone. I should also note in my day kids ran faster than those today - maybe they gained something (strength) from those doubles - instead of timetrialing every race where time is all they run for. I agree with earlier post of sometimes you run for place - sometimes you make a workout out of the 2nd race, etc.