Road Racing and Training Thread Week Ending 25 Sept 2016

team1 wrote:

Kendo, I agree. There is lots to come from regular training and staying injury-free. It's also nice to pick up PRs at all the distances while you are in prime shape. My PRs are all over the place because I ran shorter races in HS when I was fast and longer races in my 20s when I was not as fast, and never had a good marathon relative to other PRs.

What is your 5K PR? McMillan calculator suggests a 17:42 equivalent for your 10K.

Well for an full 5k race my PB is around 19:10 - it's way out of date though, and I've ran a 18:17 5k split (according to Strava's calculations at least)...

Smoove wrote:

Not sure what the customs are on this thread, but I figured that since I am starting a comeback after four months off resulting from surgery, some might find it interesting to see a progression from essentially ground zero. I had cross trained for about 10 weeks before last week, with last week being my first week back running at all (barely):

M: 40 minutes on elliptical simulating tempo pace (heart rate in low 160s)

Tu: 40 minutes on stationary bike

W: 50 minutes on elliptical simulating tempo pace (heart rate in low 160s)

Th: 40 minutes on stationary bike

F: 40 minutes on elliptical followed immediately by

1 mile easy distance run (8:30 pace)

Sa: Off

Su: 2 miles easy distance (7:45 pace)

I saw you post a bit about your comeback in some other threads. I think this is a great place to log your mileage increases, and I'm always curious to see how people are able to come back from injuries.

How are the elliptical tempos going? Is there much comparison in terms of feel to a running tempo?

They are going okay. I had a foot issue, so I'm still being cautious on the elliptical because I was only cleared for it starting two weeks ago as doc didn't want me doing anything hard and weight bearing on my foot.

Honestly, I am calling it a tempo effort because my heart rate was around 160-162, and at age 44, that's near 90% of my max heart rate. Based on past use of the elliptical, I was surprised my heart rate was so high. I'm usually able to guess what my heart rate will be without looking. I would have guessed mid 140s based on perceived effort, but I was wrong.

I feel like once I have more confidence in my foot, I will be able to crank out some quality work on the elliptical as I try to get fit while slowly building my actual running base to get ready for my Boston training block (hopefully, barring injury).

Kendo - congrats on the new half PR!

Paleale - That's a bummer about the hip, hopefully you'll be ready to go come race day

Team1 - Forgot to mention that I did a few 50m hill sprints after that workout, I can tell that hitting legs in the gym has made the sprints a lot easier, it's nice to feel strong going all out on a hill. Just need to get back that endurance now. Don't really have a goal race since I didn't start training seriously until August, there's a 5k in a few weeks at my Uni that I'm looking forward to, hopefully can dip below 18 but we'll see.

Slo-twitch - thanks, I seem to be making pretty consistent progress. 3 mile repeats with 90 seconds rest seems a little crazy, I'm not too familiar with marathon training though

Pewow - what kind of cross training do you do? I used to hit the elliptical and rowing machine occasionally and think I'll get back into that when winter comes around.

Myles Splitz - do you usually double every day that you don't have a hard effort planned? I don't think I ever doubled more than 2 or 3 times a week so might be something to try in the future.

Smoove- welcome to thread and wishing you a smooth and healthy comeback/buildup to Boston.

Logan- re: 3x3- I guess everyone is different. When I run this or 4x2 i like to do it with really short rest. (Or for 4x3 or 3x4 or workouts with mixed long intervals, I like 800m 'float recoveries' at say 6:45 pace.) Depends. I'm not running the 3x3 at half marathon pace, which would too much for a "workout" in my opinion. I try to run the 3x3 at a pace midway between half marathon pace and marathon. It ended up being a bit quick but it felt relaxed. 4x2 I will go for at hmp with 90' rest.

Kendo- ok so, here's my recollection...

winter/spring 2013- start running after 13 year hiatus. Maybe ~25-30miles per week. After a few months just barely break 40 in 10k and can't break 19 in 5k

Summer 2013- injured out for ~2 months

Fall 2013- lose some weight, train 30-40 mpw with some speed work and get down to just under 30:00 for an 8k. (Can't break 18 for 5k).

Winter- try to boost up mileage/intensity- injury- out for another 2 months (cross trained)

Spring 2014- got mileage up to ~40 for a couple months, ran the half and 10k at virtually identical times as you. After a few more weeks of running intervals was able to run 17:25 5k

Summer-fall 2014- "marathon training" only averaged about 55mpw but got the weight down a bit more. Ran a 1:20-mid half and then month later Ran 2:52 on a moderate course. Had a friend coaching me and did some good long runs in the buildup.

Late fall- got the 8k down under 28, but couldn't crack 17:15 in 5k

Winter 2014/2015- base. Averaged around 60mpw mostly singles with some weeks at 70/75. Lots of long fundamental aerobic tempos, long progression and tempos. Really no speed work other than a couple sessions of mile repeats. I start running easy days really easy and putting at least 2 recovery days after hard sessions.

Spring 2015 was great- Ran 20k in 1:12-high (~1:16-high half marathon equivalent). 15k in 53-mid. Got some speed work going and got 5k under 16:30. 10k~34:45 (not great)

Summer 2015- marathon training. Avg about 80mpw pre taper- similar training approach as now. Felt ready to go sub 2:40 at Chicago- cramped at mile 14, walked off. Came back 6 weeks later ran 2:41 at Philadelphia- not particularly strong but made it through.

Winter 2015/2016- Boston buildup. Average around 80mpw again but better workouts- feel I'm to run 2:37 at best 2:39 on a bad day. Ran a 1:10-high 20k race solo, with no taper... really struggled with the heat in Boston- terrible race, cramping hard but at least finished.

After Boston try to get in shape (too) quickly and run some shorter PRs, but ankle was messed up...

Some time off and races didn't come together..

And then this summer's marathon training. I'm trying to be conservative with any goals for Chicago because two of my four marathons have gone so poorly. I hope to run under 10 at some point for a 3200, under 16 for a 5k and I guess we'll see with the marathon. My original lifetime goal was sub 2:30, but that may not be in the cards!

Re: weight- yes I think you will see really big performance gains as it comes off.

Myles Splitz - do you usually double every day that you don't have a hard effort planned? I don't think I ever doubled more than 2 or 3 times a week so might be something to try in the future.

To be honest it is something I have been doing for a while more out of necessity than anything. I work long hours (70-80 a week) and most of my runs are commutes to and from work to save time (actually quicker to run than rely on public transport of drive in my city) as well as try to manage to keep herself happy by being around a bit. It's the reason why my easy days are dialed back pace wise (plus the backpack with work and training clothes)

slo-twitch, thanks for that run down of your comeback to running. There is some really good stuff in there, and it is neat to see how your times would get a little stuck (or maybe more not what you were hoping for) but then there was a break through right around the corner.

Looking back, was there anything you would do differently? I assuming 'not get injured' would be on there. But is there it a type of training you wished you got into sooner or something you feel you neglected too much?

Also interesting to see slo-twitch have a big leap after focusing heavily on distance and tempo efforts. Seems to support the position people seem to be taking more and more - that solid tempo work is probably the most important training component in our arsenals.