Breaking point between hobby jogger, runner, and athlete

16:45 certainly isn't middle of the pack. That won't even get you to nationals as a d2 woman.

Again, it's all about perspective. Our #3 runner on our HS XC team was around 16:45. We thought he was quick.I am 42 now and to me, if I see someone able to run a 16:45, I still consider it quick.In addition, I don't gather that all "middle of the pack" runners make nationals.Now, about these distinctions?Let's try addressing the question at hand.

Achilles of Macedon wrote:

16:45 certainly isn't middle of the pack. That won't even get you to nationals as a d2 woman.

You seem pretty hung up on labels. Considering you've been running for about 10 years - presumably after college, then I'd guess that you are in your mid-thirties. The only label you need to worry about is Masters - and that's not for a few years still. Relax.

Also, your half marathon is about 10 minutes slow for your 5k pr. I'd concentrate more on that. Maybe work on your mid-range to long runs instead of the track repeats with your community group. Best of luck!

If you aren't making a living from your running, then you are a hobby jogger. So that would likely mean anyone slower than 13:20 for 5000m.

Michael R, good job on your half marathon and 5K.

It seems to me, the term hobby jogger is almost exclusively used as an insult in the context of these message boards.

Can I reclaim the term? I'm a hobby jogger. It's my hobby, dude! I love to jog. Even if my 800 PR is 1:57, which will bring hoots of contempt for many of our brainy colleagues here on these fun, fun message boards...

The thing is, there are no boundaries between the categories you propose. I'm a hobby jogger (I'm not getting paid for it, and a lot of my runs are jogging pace) and a runner (masters 5K PR around 18:00) and an athlete (see above). You'll never be able to make clear distinctions.

It seems like the real issue is the lack of respect. The trick is knowing which discussions to stay out of. When guys in their 40s ask about breaking 20:00 in the 5K, I have some ideas. When people ask about breaking 15:00 or running D1, I stay out of it.

It would be simpler if the LRC forums were divided into sections in a sane way like forums on just about any other topic are, but LRC is what it is.

The main difference to me is not performance but proper form, running is a skill. Those who don't master it are joggers and probably harm their body in the long term. That includes a lot of marathon "finishers".

I'll still be a runner at 70.

Elite - 1500, 5K, 10K, HM, Marathon

M - 3:44, 14:00, 29:20,

Michael R wrote:

The reason I ask this question is that, for the last 10 years, I have done over 50 races ranging from 10K to marathon. I, and others in my time range (19:35 5K PR [2015] and 1:41:10 1/2M PR [2016]) seem to not really have anything we do or say respected because we are considered hobby joggers by the mainstay of this site. So, let's find some clarity. What are the actual breaking points of each distinction?

I'm 40 and not athletic at all (skinny though). Done a bit of cycling, but really incosistently and didn't do any sports in my youth. Now I've been hobby jogging for three years. Yearly mileage 600/900 and this year I'll try to break 1500 miles. After spring training I ran the half in 1.36. Was aiming at 1.39 and could've done 1.35. Can't break 20 on 5K, but haven't trained for shorter distances at all. In 5 years time I expect to run sub 3 marathon and sub 19 5K.

I like this response. For several reasons. Mainly, I like it because you run for enjoyment.Heck, I have been running for years even if I have not been that quick.I dabbled around with different sports in high school: tried out for tennis in 10th grade--didn't make itplayed one year of JV football in 11th graderan CC and track in HS in my senior yearI never got quicker than a 7:14 pace in any run in CC (21:41 in a 3 miler and 22:29 in a 5K)I never did better than a 2:30 in the 800m or a 5:33 in the mile in trackmy 2 mile never was quicker than 12:18in 1992, spring of my senior year, I ran the Carlsbad 5000 for the first time and got a 19:56...first time I ever broke 20.I still dabbled in other sports: basketball, tennis, slo-pitch softball, etcand for the last 10 years, I have, as I said raced in different races of different lengthsmy 19:35 came last year at age 41.I like the term "dedicated runner" more than I like hobby jogger. You were dedicated, I am dedicated and many here who would bust their butt trying to get a PR, even if it's 18, 19, 24, 25, etc train extremely hard and enjoy it as well. This is why many races have the same runners--we like it. Sure it's a hobby but we are dedicated and we do improve.1:57 is very quick. Most people can't do that in their lifetime--EVEN on let's run. Great accomplishment!Mike

Big Red wrote:

Michael R, good job on your half marathon and 5K.

It seems to me, the term hobby jogger is almost exclusively used as an insult in the context of these message boards.

Can I reclaim the term? I'm a hobby jogger. It's my hobby, dude! I love to jog. Even if my 800 PR is 1:57, which will bring hoots of contempt for many of our brainy colleagues here on these fun, fun message boards...

Michael R wrote:

I like the term "dedicated runner" more than I like hobby jogger. You were dedicated, I am dedicated and many here who would bust their butt trying to get a PR, even if it's 18, 19, 24, 25, etc train extremely hard and enjoy it as well. This is why many races have the same runners--we like it. Sure it's a hobby but we are dedicated and we do improve.

The conventional wisdom on this board is that hobby joggers do not know what it is to be "dedicated" to running. Are you as dedicated as DI college runners? Sponsored pros? I'm certainly not. So I am a hobby jogger.

hop*2 wrote:

The main difference to me is not performance but proper form, running is a skill. Those who don't master it are joggers and probably harm their body in the long term. That includes a lot of marathon "finishers".

I'll still be a runner at 70.

I like this reply a lot. +1.

dang had a break down by different times and levels but forget it now, it gotten eaten up by malmo or something.

Anyway, age old argument. They to break things down by elites, runners, fun runners, and joggers. Then came the walkers and penguins and all that kind of got thrown out. And in the past 15 years or so the term hobby jogger came into the vernacular as a pejorative. And now in letsrun either you are a pro (sub 13:30 or equivalent or a hobby jogger). Too bad the 1/0 idiots here can't see the gradations.

But on the other hand, you get web with sites folks saying that a bloke doing 3:30s marathons 6 or 8 times a year while running in a tutu is not an example of a hobby jogger, while 5 hour charity walk-jogger is if anything more awesome than a 2:30 marathoner. Or 28 min 5K runners deciding who gets the runner of the week award.

I'll leave it at that.

I think of a hobby jogger as someone who goes for a jog now and then with no regimen and no purpose to of any running goals but gets all of the nice running shoes and clothes.

They will enter races as a social event.

Anyone who runs with a routine and a goal in mind is a runner.

Athletes play football, basketball, etc.

Why on earth do arbitrary categories concern you so much? Waste of time. Just run.

A Typical LRC Idiot wrote:

Michael R wrote:

I like the term "dedicated runner" more than I like hobby jogger. You were dedicated, I am dedicated and many here who would bust their butt trying to get a PR, even if it's 18, 19, 24, 25, etc train extremely hard and enjoy it as well. This is why many races have the same runners--we like it. Sure it's a hobby but we are dedicated and we do improve.

The conventional wisdom on this board is that hobby joggers do not know what it is to be "dedicated" to running. Are you as dedicated as DI college runners? Sponsored pros? I'm certainly not. So I am a hobby jogger.

If you don't earn a living off of running -- and precious few do -- you are an amateur athlete. Within that enormous group there are: competitive runners, recreational runners, and hobby joggers. It's always been this way.

Used to be Rono wrote:

A Typical LRC Idiot wrote:

The conventional wisdom on this board is that hobby joggers do not know what it is to be "dedicated" to running. Are you as dedicated as DI college runners? Sponsored pros? I'm certainly not. So I am a hobby jogger.

If you don't earn a living off of running -- and precious few do -- you are an amateur athlete. Within that enormous group there are: competitive runners, recreational runners, and hobby joggers. It's always been this way.

I thought joggers where a creation of Nike, but now I see Nike was here long before. Thanks for sorting this out.

Anyone slower than me = hobby jogger

Faster than me = Elite

hop*2 wrote:

I'll still be a runner at 70.

Not if you can't run a 15:00 5k.