Say a taller thinner distance runner (meaning he's not built like a sprinter but is taller than the average distance runner) runs the open 400 in 50.0. What kind of 800\1500 would you expect him to be capable of at 18 years old with relatively efficient training focused on the 800? Basically my question is how fast can someone who runs 50.0 get in the 800\1500 in highschool?
Anywhere between 1:50 and 1:55
Exactly halfway
Agree with the first guy. I would put the limit at 1:50. With a few more years under your belt, even with the 400m time remaining the same, maybe you could drop a second or two, but I doubt it.
As for the 1500, 50.0 is fast enough to be 3:45 or faster.
What if the 50.0 400 was run off of the following training during the season? Is there room for improvement in the 400 which would result in improvement in the 800? I have a feeling this training isn't optimal for 400m performance
Monday: 4 miles easy, 1 mile straights and turns on the track (stride straights, jog curves)
Tuesday: 4 miles easy, 6x200 in 28-30, 2x200 in 26
Wednesday: 5 miles easy
Thursday: 4 miles easy, 4x100 strides in 14ish
Friday: track meet, 4x800, 1600, 4x400
Saturday: 5 easy
Sunday: 10-12 mile long run, last 4-5 miles tempo
No lifting or sprint start training.
Well, what were the times in the other events?
Definitely add in some weight training. Maybe some max speed as well
Flying 30s or something like that. Maybe even hill sprints.
That is a sample week from about mid track season, we do sometimes throw in 1-2 miles of tempo before speed work or just run 3 mile tempos and although we mostly run 200s we also will run 300s about every other week and 400s on occasion. To answer your question about the other events, I have run 1:53.8 for 800 but I run 1:55-1:56 mostly, and I have run 4:21 for a full mile but again I mostly run around 4:26 consistently. My open 400 was actually a 50.2 (second best 50.3) which surprised me because I only split 50.1 or so on the 4x400 and I thought people who ran 50.2 open would split 49 on the relay. I'm just wondering if I have enough raw speed to focus on the 800 by way of a speed focused training plan and run 1:52 or faster and then run the 800/1500 in college. What do you think?
You could definitely run a faster 400. Before you work on raw speed, work on acceleration. Not 200s, 100s. 30s. Like: 5x 100, 5x 30, cool down and end workout. Then work speed, then speed endurance. If it's really the 800 you want to improve keep doing some easy miles while doing this, but on days you don't go to the track. Your 400 will determine your 800m potential to shoot for sub 48.
This question is far too open.
An endurance type could easily run 1:46 with a 50.0 400m PB. Albeit they would also be world class over the 5k.
A pure 800m type might not run faster than 1:53.
I would be surprised at an 800/1500 guy running much quicker than 1:49.
Metric Miler wrote:
This question is far too open.
An endurance type could easily run 1:46 with a 50.0 400m PB. Albeit they would also be world class over the 5k.
A pure 800m type might not run faster than 1:53.
I would be surprised at an 800/1500 guy running much quicker than 1:49.
I usual agree with the Metric Miler on things, but I think 1:46 is out of reach for a 50.0 400m runner.
I'd even go as far to say that you cannot be a world class 5k runner and be above 50.0 in the 400m. I know people will try to point out that many 5000m have recorded PRs of 49+, but I don't see any merit in that argument.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:This question is far too open.
An endurance type could easily run 1:46 with a 50.0 400m PB. Albeit they would also be world class over the 5k.
A pure 800m type might not run faster than 1:53.
I would be surprised at an 800/1500 guy running much quicker than 1:49.
I usual agree with the Metric Miler on things, but I think 1:46 is out of reach for a 50.0 400m runner.
I'd even go as far to say that you cannot be a world class 5k runner and be above 50.0 in the 400m. I know people will try to point out that many 5000m have recorded PRs of 49+, but I don't see any merit in that argument.
Fair enough. Maybe 5k is a bit too short.
I just feel maybe a 10k+ guy like Rupp might struggle to run under 50 these days but I don't see him failing to break 1:47.
Maybe I am a little off on this one I'm not sure.
I'll answer in terms of ceilings.
A good speed-based 800 runner can at best do an 800 within 10 seconds of 2x400. (e.g. Rudisha 45.5 x 2 = 1:31, 1:31 + 10 = 1:41.)
You would think that more of a long-distance type will be closer to T400x2, but its not as much the case as you'd think for a 800-1500 type: Symmonds 47.5 x 2 = 1:35, 1:35 + 8 = 1:43.
There are obviously 1500-5000 types or pure distance runners who don't have much 400 speed and would run a 1500 closer to T400x2.
For projection from 800 to 1500, T800x2 is optimistic, and certainly achieved only by pure milers or distance runners, NOT 800 specialists.
So, I think the ABSOLUTE best you can expect from a 50-point guy would be 1:49 for the 800 and 3:38 for the 1500. And that would be phenomenal without sub-50 footspeed.
Metric Miler wrote:
This question is far too open.
An endurance type could easily run 1:46 with a 50.0 400m PB. Albeit they would also be world class over the 5k.
A pure 800m type might not run faster than 1:53.
I would be surprised at an 800/1500 guy running much quicker than 1:49.
No the limit us 50 + 4 x 2 - 1:48
Horwill.
Don't quote some runners with 400m best off just a couple of tries. HS runner will not be able to match that conversion so 1:50 + probably 1:52 until they get to 17+
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:This question is far too open.
An endurance type could easily run 1:46 with a 50.0 400m PB. Albeit they would also be world class over the 5k.
A pure 800m type might not run faster than 1:53.
I would be surprised at an 800/1500 guy running much quicker than 1:49.
No the limit us 50 + 4 x 2 - 1:48
Horwill.
Don't quote some runners with 400m best off just a couple of tries. HS runner will not be able to match that conversion so 1:50 + probably 1:52 until they get to 17+
I know what Horwill says but I don't really agree. There is not a hard and fast limit. A runner could definitely run 1:47 with a 50.0.