Jared Ward proves a smart marathoner is a successful marathoner

Intelligent beats tough when tough isn't intelligent.

Agreed, except I wouldn't say that he had 7/10 fitness. He likely had 10/10 fitness, but only 7/10 talent (compared to the very talented field).

I was also surprised and impressed with his very good (for him) time and finish. I give it a 10/10.

If Rupp had been as smart, I think there was a chance that Rupp could have edged past Lelisa for silver. That 14:25 Rupp ran was a little too hot and kept him from kicking down Lelisa. Instead, I give Rupp a 9.5/10 for his performance.

Of course if Rupp had held back during that 5k that allowed the top three to break away, he would have allowed 4th to be in contact with him and may have pulled the chasers up with him and risked a medal. So maybe it was the right thing to do. It certainly was the safe move to maximize his medal chances, just not the maximize his silver chances (at risk of losing bronze).

That Scottish guy Hawkins ran a huge race, too.

madmandoc wrote:

What a great race by Ward to finish 6th. He was in 13th at mile 21 and crushed the dead remnants coming off the lead pack. It was a brilliantly run race from someone with 7/10 fitness (relative to this field) but a 10/10 mental game.

If you had told me before the race that Rupp would medal, I'd have thought that very possible. Ward 6th I would not have believed. This man really made the most of his big chance. Going with Kipchoge's 4:40 pace would not have led to a medal, it would have led to 20th place. Well done!

If Ward keeps racing like that sooner or later there is going to be a race where everyone up front blows up and he passes up all of them, just has to get a little more ability, but he is certainly great at getting everything out of the abilty he has already

HipsterDoofus wrote:

That Scottish guy Hawkins ran a huge race, too.

Agreed, Hawkins also ran super well. But I think what gives Jared a big nod here is he also set a nice PR in a championship race with less than ideal weather conditions.

But Hawkins is super young, and I'm curious to see how he keeps progressing. I think both are sub 2:10 guys potentially, and it would be fun to see them in the same big marathon again in the future.

Gotta say US marathoners were in a class of their own strategically. First the women, riding the red line, all in the top 9. Men then came pretty close to replicating them:

Galen and Shalane: the most talented coming from the track, went with the leaders and got dropped but hung on for top US position.

Ward and Linden: Not much track background, great pacers, ran their own race and chewed people up over the last 10km.

Meb and Cragg: Pretty hard to go three for three--Meb had early problems and Cragg went out too hard, obviously Cragg held on to finish much higher.

Very impressed by Ward's run. What a great job. Inspiring.

I have no idea but I would conjecture the training dollars spent on him vs Rupp is 1:500. And they finished about 90 seconds apart.

Sdfsdf wrote:

If Rupp had been as smart, I think there was a chance that Rupp could have edged past Lelisa for silver. That 14:25 Rupp ran was a little too hot and kept him from kicking down Lelisa. Instead, I give Rupp a 9.5/10 for his performance.

And if Rupp did that we would all be asking why he didn't cover the move and win gold.:) In retrospect he might have been better off running 4:40s instead of some 4:35s but that is looking back.

Rupp had to go with the leaders when the pace dropped to a 4:42 average from 30k to 40k, that only Kipchoge could continue to the line, a 29:06 at that stage of the race hurt everyone but the winner, he is on another level right now.

I hope Rupp runs a fast marathon next year like London or Berlin but it sounds like he is going back to the track for 5/10k???

You have to think he can run in the 2:05-2:07 range with current fitness.

In 2018 he will be 32, still young, but how many really good years will he have to run some fast marathons?

HipsterDoofus wrote:

That Scottish guy Hawkins ran a huge race, too.

Hawkins found a second gear the BBC announcers didn't think he had, and likely Hawkins did even know he had. He seem overjoyed at how well he ran and how many runners he picked off in the second half.

What's not smart is only training six days a week. I know it's a faith thing, but that's a lot of time left out there.

tits mcgee wrote:

What's not smart is only training six days a week. I know it's a faith thing, but that's a lot of time left out there.

Six days got him sixth.

Everyone here is negelecting the runners who dropped out. Ward's 6th place just shows the way different nations and runners value finishes. Many who were ahead and would have stayed ahead dropped out because there is money to be made in the Fall. Ward, Hawkins and other athletes get more from finishing their marathon.

Good run, and good for him, but to say that he moved up from mile 13 to the finish because of smartbrunning is inaccurate.

This tends to apply to all the Marathon Majors. Many of the top guys show up to collect their appearance fee, but then drop due to previous injuries or lack of fitness. I think Ward can shoot for sub-2:10 and top 8 or so in Berlin or another reasonably fast race.

Twinn wrote:

Everyone here is negelecting the runners who dropped out. Ward's 6th place just shows the way different nations and runners value finishes. Many who were ahead and would have stayed ahead dropped out because there is money to be made in the Fall. Ward, Hawkins and other athletes get more from finishing their marathon.

Good run, and good for him, but to say that he moved up from mile 13 to the finish because of smartbrunning is inaccurate.

To play devil's advocate, one could argue that finish order does not matter in the least, outside of the medallists. Sixth place SOUNDS good, until you realize it does not carry any particular accolade or notoriety. Instead of praising Ward for "smart" racing, one could question why he wasn't up contending for a medal. Why run an Olympic race, if you're going to settle early on for a 6th place finish? The top elites who dropped out (or dropped way back later in the race) likely do not consider a Top 10 or Top 20 finish to be worth anything, unless it's also Top 3.

Larry David wrote:

To play devil's advocate, one could argue that finish order does not matter in the least, outside of the medallists. Sixth place SOUNDS good, until you realize it does not carry any particular accolade or notoriety. Instead of praising Ward for "smart" racing, one could question why he wasn't up contending for a medal. Why run an Olympic race, if you're going to settle early on for a 6th place finish? The top elites who dropped out (or dropped way back later in the race) likely do not consider a Top 10 or Top 20 finish to be worth anything, unless it's also Top 3.

So was Molly Huddle wasting her time in the 10k?

Dumb comment wrote:

Larry David wrote:

To play devil's advocate, one could argue that finish order does not matter in the least, outside of the medallists. Sixth place SOUNDS good, until you realize it does not carry any particular accolade or notoriety. Instead of praising Ward for "smart" racing, one could question why he wasn't up contending for a medal. Why run an Olympic race, if you're going to settle early on for a 6th place finish? The top elites who dropped out (or dropped way back later in the race) likely do not consider a Top 10 or Top 20 finish to be worth anything, unless it's also Top 3.

So was Molly Huddle wasting her time in the 10k?

The difference between Ward and Huddle is that Ward decided he was defeated well-before he finished the race.

Molly at least didn't throw in the towel early in the 10K. She went with the suicidal moves, and paid for it. There were tons of posters claiming it was boneheaded for her to do that, and she could probably have run better had she not, but it's fantastic that she didn't decide she was beaten until she really was beaten. Had she run more conservatively, she might have a faster PR. However, she would most definitely not have had any chance at a medal.

When the moves were made in the Marathon, Ward just settled back and tossed any medaling chances away. His place came more because he made a very calculated move to stick to a plan regardless of any changes in pace. However, the only way he could have hoped for a top-3 finish in that scenario would be for everyone in front of him to collapse.

I'm sure you all noticed that near the end of the race, Ward was able to pass a dozen or so runners who had imploded from the previous pace. Ward in contrast, had not attempted to go with the pace, and had enough left to carry him comfortably to the finish. IMO, that was the sign that he should have gone for it. He netted himself 6th place, which, realistically, is nothing. Had he tried to cover all the moves, he may also have imploded, but given how strong he was at the end, there's a chance he may have been able to hang in there and maybe even pick off Rupp or Lelisa.

broken arrow wrote:

Rupp had to go with the leaders when the pace dropped to a 4:42 average from 30k to 40k, that only Kipchoge could continue to the line, a 29:06 at that stage of the race hurt everyone but the winner, he is on another level right now.

I hope Rupp runs a fast marathon next year like London or Berlin but it sounds like he is going back to the track for 5/10k???

You have to think he can run in the 2:05-2:07 range with current fitness.

In 2018 he will be 32, still young, but how many really good years will he have to run some fast marathons?

Rupp was running for the gold, not the silver which I think he could have gotten had he let Kipchoge go and run a better pace to reel in Lilesa (although he couldn't have known Lilesa would necessarily fade as well). I also think he would have managed to pull out the silver if he hadn't a hard 10k in his legs (wasn't his last 5k in 13:1x?).

Rupp has shown himself to be a consistent top-5 performer in championship races (excepting the 5k, where I think he's underperformed only slightly but despite 3:50 mile speed he's more a natural 10k-marathoner), so I can't understand how people discounted his chances at a medal especially given the way Olympic marathons usually turn out. I don't think Farah could have pulled out a bronze in the marathon, nor could Kipchoge have placed 5th in the 10k with his current training (although I feel less confident about that assertion given his previous 5k success). And despite hanging with Kipchoge longer than the rest of the field, Rupp managed to be a full minute clear of 4th place.

Ward ran incredibly smart and probably ran to the best finish he could have while others overextended and faded. It will be cool to see if he can keep progressing. Second American in 6th place, the next #2 from any country was Ethiopia in 13th.

Props to Meb for his effort despite obviously battling some sort of cramp/injury. I was annoyed at the commentators ignoring his 2004 silver when talking about the last American marathon medal. And also the racial undertones when talking about westerners competing with Africans, I think this Olympics marks a turning point in raising the bar in expectations of American distance runners - after 20+ years of almost no medals in the distances, we actually beat Kenya and Ethiopia in the men's medal count. Props to Webb/Hall/Ritzenhein for the generation of new talent that they inspired starting with their sick performances as high schoolers.

Cross country scoring and I think USA would have taken the team race.

It's not "nothing" to those of you with win or go home mentalities. Before the Olympics, Ward was just a good American marathoner. Now, with 6th in the biggest race of the year in difficult conditions, Ward is an international name. You can definitely medal, if not win, by running within yourself like Ward did and picking off dying leaders. Deena Kastor and Steve Spence medaled at the Olympics/World Championships using the same tactic. It didn't work out for Ward, but now he is more than just a top American marathoner. If he had dropped, out his reputation would be more or less the same. Easy for top names to drop because their reputations are already made.