Need legal advice - unlawfully EVICTED!

very likely a troll post, but here goes anyway...

You haven't been evicted. That is a legal proceeding. You have been asked to leave. It is up to you whether you want to honor that request or not. If you don't, you have already established residency and are paying rent, so it is going to take time and money to get you out. Of course that will make your life pretty awful.

If you don't want to stay just to spite him, make him give you the money back that you gave him for rent. You are entitled to that (or at least a pro-rated portion of it). There is really no other recourse.

The reason people sign leases (and contracts generally) is that they spell out obligations and rights of the various parties. Without a specific contract, you fall back on general principles of state law which is messy to apply to specific situations.

Live and learn.

My old neighbor had this incredible German Shepherd with a big furry coat. Just a great dog, very friendly. He also had a big boat that he'd take out on the weekends. I don't think he was a particularly skilled boater, because he was always running the boat ashore and dashing huge holes in the boat when he'd slam against the rocks. He was constantly having to have it repaired. He never did really get any better, but he sure did have a lot of money!

not a troll post, unfortunately.

and to be honest, your advice is contrary to everything I have read on the matter so far. most sources say he needs to give me a formal notification just like in a regular paper contract.

the state is PA, by the way. verbal agreement has the same value of a signed contract as far as I know.

That's your first mistake. You shouldn't have done any research or reading before coming to Let's Run for legal advice.

the second heat of the 15 had a guy pushing everyone in the home straight. not sure which athlete did it, but that is a clear DQ.

Right, he probably does.

Here is how this is likely to play out (if you decide to fight it). *Dependent on jurisdiction...

He can change the locks. Or he can try to block you from entering the building. Or he can put your stuff on the lawn. Or he can call the police to ask to have you removed. Or you can call the police when he puts your stuff on the lawn or tries to lock you out. Very little chance this gets resolved without police involvement at some point if the two of you can't work it our and act like adults. The police will come and ask both of you questions. You have established residency. You have paid rent. You, the police will tell him, have the right to be there and stay there.

He will then have to petition the court to have you evicted. At that point, things like whether he has given you proper notice will come into play in the courthouse. You are right, he probably does have to give you that (again dependent on jurisdiction). Evictions are not all that easy and judges don't take kindly to landlords who haven't dotted all the "i"s and crossed all the "t"s. So he will have to go through a process. Notice, petition to the court, removal by police, etc. Often this is a three-six month process (at a minimum).

You can go down that route if you want. You have legal protections on your side. You can probably even get by with a few months of not paying any rent at all (although this might hasten the eventual eviction). Of course you are going to be living there in a miserable, tense situation every day.

I'm suggesting, in spite of whether you are right or wrong, that you are far better off getting out with your money back and moving on with your life.

You sound like you are wanting to make some sort of moral point. Don't. Courts are not the place for it and you are likely to suffer more than any vindication you get out of it.

Your mistake. Trust no one.

Who was your witness to your verbal agreement? Witness, letter, or paper trail or it didn't happen. Emails, texts count as paper trail. Checks deposited by the house owner on a routine monthly schedule may contribute as a paper trail.

Some things you may want to leave as a "gentleman's agreement" over the phone so it isn't documented but there is an understanding. Everything else, write it down and document it. Even better, write it down and have the other party sign and acknowledge their understanding.

Everyone is your friend until money is involved.

somebloke wrote:

and to be honest, your advice is contrary to everything I have read on the matter so far. most sources say he needs to give me a formal notification just like in a regular paper contract.

you fall back on general principles of state law which is messy to apply to specific situations.

First reply is right. Dealing with people who may or may not own the "shared house" and doesn't even inform you of he's renovating is a recipe for disaster.

You tried to do something on the cheap and you got burned.

Let's pretend in all your righteousness you actually pursue some civil claim and win. You just spent time and money pursuing a guy that won't pay you anyway.

Just do it the right way, for once.

John Clendon wrote:

Your mistake. Trust no one.

Who was your witness to your verbal agreement? Witness, letter, or paper trail or it didn't happen. Emails, texts count as paper trail. Checks deposited by the house owner on a routine monthly schedule may contribute as a paper trail.

Some things you may want to leave as a "gentleman's agreement" over the phone so it isn't documented but there is an understanding. Everything else, write it down and document it. Even better, write it down and have the other party sign and acknowledge their understanding.

Everyone is your friend until money is involved.

I have the entire paper trail. Lots of emails, and I payed with a check.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

somebloke wrote:

and to be honest, your advice is contrary to everything I have read on the matter so far. most sources say he needs to give me a formal notification just like in a regular paper contract.

you fall back on general principles of state law which is messy to apply to specific situations.

First reply is right. Dealing with people who may or may not own the "shared house" and doesn't even inform you of he's renovating is a recipe for disaster.

You tried to do something on the cheap and you got burned.

Let's pretend in all your righteousness you actually pursue some civil claim and win. You just spent time and money pursuing a guy that won't pay you anyway.

Just do it the right way, for once.

I have the money to go after him, I have the motivation, but I don't have the time.

FWIW, I had asked around about the house and the previous housemates. I heard only positive feedback. I did my homework, and still got screwed over. Shitty situation.

John Clendon wrote:

Everyone is your friend until money is involved.

I'm pretty much all troll all the time, but seriously, this might be the wisest thing ever posted on this site. I'm serious.

Make him take you court.

At the hearing explain to the judge that he dived into your room to serve the eviction papers.

If his torso was not more than two feet off the ground, and his feet did not cross the threshold the judge will DQ him on the no diving rule.

Cite this website in your legal brief please.

somebloke wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

you fall back on general principles of state law which is messy to apply to specific situations.

First reply is right. Dealing with people who may or may not own the "shared house" and doesn't even inform you of he's renovating is a recipe for disaster.

You tried to do something on the cheap and you got burned.

Let's pretend in all your righteousness you actually pursue some civil claim and win. You just spent time and money pursuing a guy that won't pay you anyway.

Just do it the right way, for once.

I have the money to go after him, I have the motivation, but I don't have the time.

FWIW, I had asked around about the house and the previous housemates. I heard only positive feedback. I did my homework, and still got screwed over. Shitty situation.

Right, so theoretically you can go after him for "failure to perform" or something of that nature. Basically you can (maybe, depending on the strength of your paper trail, specific jurisdiction, and judge), make him take your rent money and make him let you live there for the term of your lease.

I'm not sure how that is a win for you?

But feel free to seek your moral justification through the courts.

He will be DQ wrote:

Make him take you court.

At the hearing explain to the judge that he dived into your room to serve the eviction papers.

If his torso was not more than two feet off the ground, and his feet did not cross the threshold the judge will DQ him on the no diving rule.

Cite this website in your legal brief please.

thanks for the laugh :)

land lord tenant law is based on state law and varies greatly from state to state. Some municipalities may also have their own land lord tenant regulations in addition to state law. I know nothing about PA law. This is just for educational purposes. You should consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction to understand your legal rights.

An oral agreement for a lease that is in excess of a year may not be enforceable due to the statute of frauds. An informal oral lease agreement can be enforceable without a writing if it is for a year or less, but, absent evidence of an agreement to the contrary, will be viewed as a tenancy at will. This means that the landlord or the tenant can terminate the tenancy at any time with "reasonable notice". Some jurisdictions regulate what is reasonable notice by statute. 30 days notice is common. Some jurisdictions will require extra whoops like certified mail.

Then, suppose your land lord claims that the agreement was to only have you stay for one month. The issue then is what is your jurisdictions requirement on notice to quit when a tenant breaches the lease agreement or holds over after the lease agreement expires. Some jurisdictions will allow a landlord to give a tenant a much shorter time to voluntarily leave than what is reasonable notice to terminate a tenancy at will. Three to five days is common depending on the circumstances of the breach of the lease, etc.

The landlord is obligated to proceed with a formal eviction if they want to forcibly remove you from the premises. However, if the landlord provides proper notice to quit or reasonable notice terminating the tenancy and you voluntarily leave, you have no right to a formal eviction proceeding (general rule--check your jurisdiction).

Precious Roy wrote:

The landlord is obligated to proceed with a formal eviction if they want to forcibly remove you from the premises. However, if the landlord provides proper notice to quit or reasonable notice terminating the tenancy and you voluntarily leave, you have no right to a formal eviction proceeding (general rule--check your jurisdiction).

sounds about right.

1. Print off all the emails

2. Get a copy of the check deposited

3. Make notes of the conversations

You made a payment in good faith, the contract- even if made verbally- is binding. It depends on the specific housing code in PA as to whether or not you are considered a tenant without a lease after a certain amount of days but if he is kicking you out, at bare minimum a small claims action would yield you the return of your rent and probably an amount for relocation due to being kicked out without proper notice or cause.