working out back-to-back days.

Not. smart.

It's called loading, and it can work, but it is also dangerous. If you are the type that can't recover at least 90% on a nights sleep, don't do it.

Our coach has us doing it on most weeks. He says it is to prepare us to double back to back days when conferences roll around. Some of the 2nd workouts do seem to be compromised by the first though, and I often am really hurting on the Thursday after both.

Taking monday off in a schedule like that is a joke. You would be far better served to do a 5-8 mile recovery run to help prepare for the week's workouts. I also don't like that you have your long day the day after race. Essentially you have back to back workouts (yes a race is a workout, in fact, probably the best workout) twice a week. I can't see doing that for more than a couple weeks without getting burned. I agree with the first responder. Not. Smart. At. All.

it's an individual thing. some can do it and some can't ...more probably can than they realize. just because you're tired from it doesn't make it bad. i would withold judgment until the end of the season and see how fast you run after you've tapered . in my experience, doing threshold work on tuesday, and racepaced intervals on wedvesday brings nice results.

the worst part of it is trying to convince athletes that they're not being abused. some of them will tend to feel sorry for themselves and think there is no way it can work because their h.s. coach didn't do it or they didn't read in runner's world, or hear about from tinman.

I've done this for six year every Monday and Tuesday.Have not had a day off or injury [knock wood].

I have been feeling pretty burned lately, but running PRs so it is hard to complain.

My coach is pretty dead set in his ways. I can usually handle this back-to-back stuff most days but I am always seeing teammates go down with injury. I am worried that I might be next.

Is there anything that I can say to him to try to get him to train us smarter? I don't want to offend his program b/c we have had some real good runners come through in the past and he has been at this a really long time.

what's the matter with you? if you're running pr's and the coach has a proven track record, then shut up and do what you're told! jesus.

If you run for Jtupper its your choice:

Long Sunday

Interval on Monday or Tuesday

Tempo on Tuesday or Wednesday

Ran or Tempo on Saturday

Just don't go crazy on the first workout, hold to your paces even if you feel great. That will make the second day a lot easier.

Your coach is probably right, it will get you used to making strong second-day efforts, which is especially important if you go to nationals and have to run heats. Just be extra-careful with any nicks and pains. Remember that feeling run-down is pretty normal when you are training hard--you are pushing your body to new limits, which means that your body also needs to exceed previous rest amounts as well. If you read the journal of that guy who trained like a swimmer and dropped 30s off his 5k time, you'll see that he says that he felt constantly overtrained. Renato also says that during hard training, feeling tired all the time is not overtraining, it is hard training. You walk a fine line, you just have to listen to your body and stay this side of injury.

This is unwise. Even one hard workout like the ones you mentioned cause the pH level in the blood to drop and, consequently, cause the muscles to become saturated with lactic acid. This is how one increases their anaerobic threshold, but recover is a NECESSITY. Dropping the pH level two days in a row will do nothing but damage your body. You will begin to feel very fatigued and even ill as the excess lactic acid in your body causes the inability to properly metabolize certain vitamins and, in extreme cases, can cause malnutrition. The bottom line is, you are doing more harm than good by running back-to-back anaeorbic days, and then, again, racing on Saturday. Run by how you feel. Idealy you should feel fatigued the day after a hard, anaerobic workout and because of this, you should run aerobically until you feel recovered enough to again engage in anaerobic training. Don't give yourself a quota of however many hard workouts a week.

Well, the negative comments some are making here are inaccurate. I used a training schedule like that for years at Northwest College (different types of quality workouts, but the same setup, and the same days). We had a 100% 5k PR rate during my last five years there. We won four consecutive Cascade Conference Championships. We finished top 7 at xc Nationals four consecutive years, including the 2002 Women's National Championship and a second place finish in 2003, my final year. They ran terrific times in track as well. And we had one of the lowest injury rates in the nation...of course we used ice baths liberally and treated even the faintest hint of an injury immediately. I also was not afraid to give the team a day off in the middle of the season if they had been working hard and looked like they were on that edge.

So I can assure you that it not only works, it works very well.

I know that by posting this, there will be that group out there that says negative things anyway, but the proof is in the results.

Our team has also had success off a back-to-back schedule, monday and tuesday. It definitely does make your legs feel like crap on the third day, and you will not have as FAST a workout on tuesday (although it feels like we get more out of it anyway). Regardless it is the core of our program and our results tend to indicate that it is beneficial. There is some elevated danger of injury but it's an acceptable risk.

Thanks everyone for all your input. I thought I might get a consenus as to whether this method of training was good or bad and I have seem to gotten neither. As far as I know this will continue to be our teams schedule. Keep in mind however that we do not due these EXACT workouts week in and weekout, but usually a variation of longer threshold intervals and short fast repeats. This is also not repeated every single week, but it is the dominate form of training for us. From now throughout the rest of outdoor until taper for conference I will most likely discontinue the day off unless absolutely neccessary. I did this mainly out of habit and my coaches direction - although he sees nothing wrong with running 7 days a week.

By the way my PRs are 1:58, 4:10, 9:02, and 15:39...

Out of these which is my best event????

Junk Science, here are a few friendly comments to think on.

-While you are right that you didn't get a consensus response to your question, if you read through the posts, the people who have used this type of system were in consensus agreement that it does work. I would include you in this group, since you are PR'ing. (you are always going to get people on this board who rip things...especially things that are different than they are used to. That is the nature of this board.)

-While I know there are bad coaches out there, it would appear, based on the limited info you have provided, your coach has a plan and you are PR'ing. I certainly don't endorse blindly following anyone, but the proof is in the results. The more you doubt, the less you will achieve. Be wise, but be careful in your criticism. You chose that school and I assume you chose that coach. Live with your choice and keep improving. Don't let unreasonable doubt rob you of your potential. Athlete-Coach trust is essential to success, in my opinion.

-If you don't like your training, or you have questions or doubts, ask for a sit-down meeting with your coach. Learning why things are done helps you to have more trust in him, in yourself, and allows you to learn. You should do that before you post on a message board like this where a lot of unqualified people will give you unqualified opinions.

-I would also strongly suggest you talk to your coach about which event is best for you. Asking on here will serve no purpose. An examination of your PR's on a message board doesn't tell anyone who is a legitimate expert anything about your ability. Your coach is the one who sees your workouts, understands your talents, knows your body type, knows your previous running history and hopefully knows your mental and physical limitations.

-In regards to being really tired after the second workout, that is normal, so don't worry about it. It is training, and if you are training to be fast, it is going to take a toll. There is a difference between being exhausted from training at a high level and burning out. I would say if you are feeling that way and are PR'ing, you just aren't used to training at the right level yet. You aren't going to be running PR's if you are burning out, so it would seem your body is dealing with the training fine so far. Also understand that while the consecutive two days do take a lot out of you, that is also why this style of training provides 48 hours of recovery time after the second workout. (as a side note, for what it's worth, when in the right mental state my athletes often had better practices on the second day)

-Injuries. First, for athletes training at a high level, there are going to be some injuries along the way. You said you were worried about getting injured because a teammate or teammates have been injured. You need to determine if most of the team is getting injured, how often the injuries are happening, and what type of injuries are occurring. If your team is getting stress related injuries, then there probably is a problem in the training program. In my opinion, stress fractures should be a rare to nonexistant occurance in a program. Normal little things (a case of shin splints or two, soreness, etc) or freak things (ankle sprains for example) are not usually what you look at in determining if a training plan is causing injury.

Anyway, just some comments that might help. I strongly suggest you develop your relationship with your coach though. It sounds to me like trust is the biggest issue here.

Have a great season!

I hate that Bill Taylor.