I heard something that I think the hansons said that is you run a 20 miler at marathon pace....then a few weeks later you should be able to run a full marathon?? not sure if i heard it right...obviously you have to go thru a strict training program before this but.....I think they said running the 20 miles then within the next few days run a 6 miler hard and that simulates the whole marathon and you are set to go????
ANY thoughts???
I have said a lot of stupid things, but that is not one of them. I don't even understand the theory involved with that. I am more than willing to share our training philosophies with anyone that is interested. Feel free to drop me an email at
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Kevin Hanson
They must have a decent training programme to produce great marathoners like Clint Verran and Trent Briney. I think they have a few kinks to work out in their system, but overall they have good results.
Jason
All of them seem to be nice guys too (that I have met), which makes it even easier to like their program. Had the opportunity to hang with Carl Rundell and James Lander for the last week. Once again thanks for the loan Kevin.
I've never heard of doing a 20 miler at goal marathon pace, or doing that and then a hard six miler a few days later for that matter, but I think that doing a long run of 25-30k a month before your marathon at goal pace is a good indicator of what you can do on race day, assuming this 25-30k run is comfortable and you don't go to the well.
In Running Times the program didn't go over 16 miles. If I remember, the point they had was that your typical Joe runs like 40-50 miles during his marathon training, the 20 miler represents a disproportionate amount of the weekly mileage and if VERY hard on the body. By reducing the 20 miler to a 16 you are able to recover earlier in the week and run your other training days with more effort.
As mentioned in the article, and any real runner knows, it's all about percentages. your long run shouldn't represent more than 25% of your weekly mileage and 25% might be too much. It wouldn't make sense to run 50 mile weeks and have your long runs to be 20 miles long (40% of weekly mileage).
At the same time the Hansons program doesn't down play the importance of the long run. They admit that their runners' long runs can be as long as 22-24 miles, however, they are putting in 100+ weeks. Therefore, their percentages don't get out of whack.
Even you "hard core" age groupers who train 70-80 miles a week shouldn't "over run" your long runs. Think quality and train smart. Hamering every day or running dispraportionately (sp) long will not benefit your performance.
As a friend of mine once said "Keep it simple stupid and the times will come."
Antonio Cabral talkin bout Carlos Lopes:
- That´s very very rare that he did more than 90 min runs, even in a marathon plan, i think that for all 6 all carrer marathons he competes he did 2 sessions longer than 90min.
yeah don't want your long run to get in the way of your easy runs.
I heard that Keith Brantly would only run 10 miles; after that he would get \"dead legs\". Why train on dead legs.
Most feel the need for the long run because they do not have the confidence in themselves. The long run validates the shape they are in but does little to improve it.
basic running 101: you train specifically for the race so you can cover the distance and the pace. for the marathon, the best plan is for you to be able to cover most of the distance and do this economically. running long runs does this for you. you do tempo runs and speed workouts to take care of the pace aspect. sure you can get around not doing long runs depending on your background but you'll perform better if you incorporate them.
no one says run 20M long runs week in and week out, of course that would chew you up. do 2 a month or something and some shorter runs. that will benefit you more than some watered-down long runs, if that is in fact what Hansons proposes.
mr cripple wrote:
Most feel the need for the long run because they do not have the confidence in themselves. The long run validates the shape they are in but does little to improve it.
You are an idiot.
mr cripple wrote:
Most feel the need for the long run because they do not have the confidence in themselves. The long run validates the shape they are in but does little to improve it.
Take the time you plan on running the marathon, say 2:30. You'll run the same number of steps in a 2:30 long run as you would during a 2:30 marathon even though it's longer distance. As far as preparing the body for simply being out there that long (the pounding) it would be wise to cover the same amount of time a few times in training. So a runner planning on a 2:30 marathon would cover about 22 miles on a 2:30 easy long run. Why are we afraid of hurting our bodies with 20+ mile long runs when there are ultra runners putting in 50 milers? No one said to run 2:30 or longer every single week, but once or twice a month will give you the training effect you need. Also, it would be wise to focus your attention on these longer runs early in training (base phase) and then cut the distance but increase the pace (15-18 finishing last 3/4-half at marathon pace). That way the pounding of the longer runs doesn't leave you trashed for other training.
I'm running about 70 miles a week right now, and for the past 3 weeks have been running one 20 miler a week. I've increased my mileage from my last build-up and don't feel too beat up. I fact I've thought of keeping up the 20's until taper time. I usually start reducing mileage 4 weeks out. FYI. I'm a 2:45-2:50 guy, and most of my long runs between 7:00-7:20 pace. Yeah, I know I'm probaby running them to fast. Thoughts?
How fast do you recover from your long runs? If you are feeling okay the next day, your pace is fine, and you could probably keep doing 20 milers until 14 days before the marathon. It depends on whether you do better with a shoter taper or longer taper. If you need a longer taper, do your last 20 mile run 21 days before the marathon.
Well, I really go slow on days after. 8 miles at 7:40-8:00 pace. Typical week is:
M: 8E
T: 12-15 with 5-6 at Tempo (about 5:55mpm for me)
W: 8E
T: 15 Steady (7:00 pace)
F: 8E
Sat: 20
Sun: 8-10 easy
I'll do the tempo run a couple weeks in a row, and then on the 3rd week replace it with a steady 12-15 run. Also, usually b/c of schedule restraints one of the 8E days becomes a zero every few weeks. Which is fine b/c I probably need the rest.
The Marathon is in the end of May.
Smelltheglove wrote:
In Running Times the program didn't go over 16 miles. If I remember, the point they had was that your typical Joe runs like 40-50 miles during his marathon training, the 20 miler represents a disproportionate amount of the weekly mileage and if VERY hard on the body. By reducing the 20 miler to a 16 you are able to recover earlier in the week and run your other training days with more effort.
They also talk about the effect of residual fatigue being emphasized in their program. I believe that most of the long runs were preceeded by a 10 miler the day before. Combine that with ~ two more workouts durring the week leading up to it, and you will be running on tired legs. Isn't that one of the big points of the long run anyway....To teach your body to run when it's fatigued?
I can't say whether I agree or disagree with the program. I've been running a long time but I'm still a marathon novice. On one hand I can see the value of the 20+ miler. In the build up to my best marathon I did a very tough, hilly, 22 miler, it really helped my confidence. What did it do for my fitness? I have no idea.
On the other hand back in college I never went over 16 miles, but I'm positive I could have run close to 2:30 based on my fitness.
I don't think they are saying anything too radical, and they aren't giving you the "less is more" attitude of Galloway and RW. You aren't trotting around during the week waiting to do the long run on Sat., you are doing some quality stuff.