2:33? Why do the best athletes go to college?

In all the pro vs. college arguments I've heard, the most frequent argument out there for not going pro is staying in college to "learn how to race" before locking horns with the big boys internationally. The big 10 mile went out in 2:33. Here in NJ the HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS' mile went out in 2:26 at our state MOC.

What international race requires the learning experience of going out in 2:33 for a mile race? please. this tactical racing trend at championship meets is bullshit. the big east mile was out in 2:13? what a joke! but it happens every year.

What do our best and brightest prospects possibly have to gain from getting into races like these? running slow times in "tactical" college races isn't going to get out best talent ready for teh world stage.

Doesn't the exact same thing happen in Worlds and the Olympics, but on a bigger scale? When was the last time an Oly 1500 was about frontrunning?

for one thing they dont go out in 233, maybe 200 at the slowest....

233 is so slow, what a bunch of pussies. i ran a half marathon yesterday at 530 pace, 245 each 800...come on.,.....SLOW

If the guys in the race thought it was BS they wouldve taken it out harder. It happens all the time. If you want to complain about it, you get in the meet and run. I saw a mile at a conference meet go out in 2:19 and the winner came back in 1:59. That's why the best athletes go to college. It's just learning. It'd be like saying...why do people go to high school? They should just go straight to college. They need the growing/learning experience where mistakes can be made. Mistakes on a world stage are far more scrutinized.

Perhaps they go to college because they want to get an education in case their running aspirations don't work out. Yes no? If you hadn't heard, there aren't too many multi-million dollar contracts awaiting high school distance runners. Don't get me wrong, I am all for distance runners putting the "real world" on hold, but don't you think that, for distance runners, it is a good idea to at least start out in college before attempting to procure big sponsorships?

good for you, guess what if you were in the race with these guys you could be the dumbass to go out and "have balls". what is this nonsense about it having balls to take it out. id say it takes balls to wait and try to finnish like they did. Your ass would have got destroyed either way so quit bitching

1980 olympic 1500m: first 800m in 2:04

1988 olympic 1500m: first 800m right around 2:00

1992 olympic 1500m: first 800m in 2:06

1996 olympic 1500m: first 800m in 2:01

2004 olympic 1500m: first 800m right around 2:00

5 out of the last 7 have gone out 2:00 or slower. No, that's not 2:33, but running in a 2:33 first 800m teaches you how to position yourself for a kick and can also teach you how to wind up the pace like Coe and Straub did in 1980, Morceli did in 1996 and El Gerroudj did in 2004. At that slow of a pace, position and accerleration are even more crucial than they would be in 2:00/2:05 first half, so competing in that type of race can teach you a lot as a runner.

The purpose of the Big Ten final is not to prepare athletes for the "learning experience of international racing." There are lots of other meets that serve that purpose.

The Big Ten Championship is probably one of the lowest priority races that Willis, the Jefferson's, and perhaps Spiker will run in this season.

Each of those guys has shown how to run fast. Championships are not to see who the best time trialer is. Championships are about seeing who the best racer is.

I'll bet if you asked those guys if that race, going out in 2:33 detracted from their preparations for the NCAA's, their outdoor season, or their professional development, they would laugh.

I have never had an athlete come to my school because they thought that our races would prepare them for international success. They came because they wanted to train in a group and get to a new area of fitness. They also came because it was free or partially free. Until there is an alternative.....

If you think that college has not been great for the development of Willis, Spiker, or the Jeffersons......

Schumacher has done a great job keeping Spiker healthy and progressing throughout his career, as he has done with all of his crew. You never hear of a guy going to Wisconsin and disappearing. Ron beats the crap out of some kids, but at the highest level, from Diemer to Barquist, to Sully, to Willis, he has gotten them to the big time. Chapman has helped the Jefferson's drop about 10 seconds in 4 years in the mile, and the progression of Haas may be the story of the conference this indoor season. And talk about protecting their future's -- Chapman entered Haas in the mile of the DMR at the conference meet instead of making him do the 3k/5k double. He knows that kid has a future and he's not going to ruin it.

One last comment. My athlete was warming up when Willis and the Jeffersons went for their cool down. He said they were laughing and smiling the whole time. To them I think the race was a lot of fun. As a coach, I know that is part of the collegiate experience too.

"One last comment. My athlete was warming up when Willis and the Jeffersons went for their cool down. He said they were laughing and smiling the whole time. To them I think the race was a lot of fun. As a coach, I know that is part of the collegiate experience too."

You make an excellent point here. I think Willis just really loves to race. If you read his comments on the Michigan website, he called the race a bit of fun. If you check out the pictures from indoor NCAAs last year, he's smiling right after Cragg beat him in the 3000m. I think he enjoyed the challenged of racing Cragg in a 3k, seeing if he could have enough left to outkick him. He probably would have dominated the mile last year but chose to have a race with Cragg instead. And yes international racing is probably fun for him too, but there is much more pressure involved, and its nice to have some fun races with guys you would consider your friends.

At world indoors a few years ago it went out almost that slow, something in the 2:20's.

Why doesn't someone try the old Filbert Bayi tactic of taking it from the gun? I know the chances of winning are slim but at least you can walk away knowing that you tried something different. I can see why the Jeffersons, Willis and maybe Spiker wouldn't do it but for the other guys why not? I would rather get DFL in 4:05 than 4:30.

i disagree with the statement that running that slow helps prepare these athletes for olympic type races. You have to keep up with the big boys for that first "slow" 800, before you can kick with them for the second half of the race. I'm not exactly sure, but I thought el G ran something like 1:46ish for the last 800 and that was off a 2:00 pace. 1:53 off of a 2:33 just doesn't seem like it's going to do too much for their development.

This kind of argument always brings me back to the 1984 Olympic 1500 finals. Running at home, in what is clearly to be his last Olympics, Steve Scott is the only one with the nuts to go to the front and make the pace honest. And then of course he got boned big time and finished 10th. Sure, after the race, the other guys told him they were glad he pushed it and respected him for it. And I'm sure that was a lot of comfort

Earl wrote:

Why doesn't someone try the old Filbert Bayi tactic of taking it from the gun? I know the chances of winning are slim but at least you can walk away knowing that you tried something different. I can see why the Jeffersons, Willis and maybe Spiker wouldn't do it but for the other guys why not? I would rather get DFL in 4:05 than 4:30.

this i do agree with

though i think people are waaay too hung up on times in this issue, i do believe that while i dont want all races to be balls to the wall time trials, something other than the blazing last 200 kick would be nice

willis, jeffs, and spiker dont owe us fast times and for them this strategy was reasonable, but there was no reason for the slower guys to let the race go out like this

they knew they werent going to win so y didnt they take it out and say they saw daylight for a while in one of the best big 10 mile fields of all time

Wrong. He took 5th in 1988....

Yeah, I guess he did. My bad. He did have a considerable amount riding on that race though, that's the impression I got from his book, especially given that he lost the chance to go in 1980 . Either way, his race is a warning about what can happen to the guys who has the balls to go up and push the pace.

I think another reason this was so slow was that there were only 8 in the final. So everyone already had points, and they all must think they can out kick at least one person. so why would they bother doing extra work for the same result? In my mind, it was actually smart racing by all of them.

Relax, stay out of trouble and kick appears to have been the best strategy for everyone, not just the top guys. especially after a long weekend of racing and nationals just around the corner. So in that regards it was still a very unique race, even though it wasn't the race people wanted with the 2 national champs and an olympian (I am sure we will get to see it again at nationals anyway)

Finally, the guys who would normally be running just to score some points are usually the ones willing to do some work early to improve their chances of at least placing. That is why I like conferences that take 12 to finals. I am not saying it wouldn't still be tactial, but not 2:33. So again, I think the field size was largely responsible for creating this type of race.

has everyone forgot the men's 5000 goodwill games race debockle?

Earl wrote:

I know the chances of winning are slim but at least you can walk away knowing that you tried something different.

Some people race to "try something different", others race to place the best they can. Personally, I don't care whether my "head is held high" after a race, I care how many people I beat. (Assuming we're talking about a conference championship here, not a twilight meet.)

As far as preparing for international competition, these races really do happen in the real world. As someone mentioned, World Indoors often goes in the mid-3:50s. And it happens all the time at lower level international meets like Pan Ams, Commonwealths, World University. Last time I ran World University, I got knocked out in the semi after splitting 2:16-17 and closing in 1:51. Six of us finished in a blanket, only three qualified, and my bad positioning with a lap to go screwed me. And it made me wish I'd had more races like the one Willis and Jefferson just ran, to be ready for a race like that.