Some say he did, some say he didn't, but with Kiprop's potential to take down his 18-year-old record, I think it's time we ask this question again:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1915626&page=1
What do his records mean for distance running? What, if he gets it, will Kiprop's?
What is wrong with you people!? He does NOT identify as a doper, please have some respect
This isn't logical reasoning, but El G was my childhood hero, so its hard for me to think that he did dope. But every child's dreams are crushed eventually, so I suppose it is possible...
Yeah I loved watching him run, a bit like Federer in tennis, but the biggest give away is Ramzi who had a p.r. of 3:29 for 1500m and he was on epo and won gold at the 2005 w.c. 800m. El G. Ran three seconds quicker when they couldn't detect epo or blood doping. Secondly, most of the other Moroccans he trained with have been busted for drugs. Sadly.
He's from Morocco. Any decent runner from Morocco is doped to the gills. There's your evidence.
He was too consistent. Kiprop at least loses sometimes.
Uneducated wrote:
This isn't logical reasoning, but El G was my childhood hero, so its hard for me to think that he did dope. But every child's dreams are crushed eventually, so I suppose it is possible...
He never tested positive.
Marco Pantani never tested positive:
During the 2001 Giro d'Italia, a syringe containing traces of insulin was found in Pantani's room. Pantani claimed that the insulin had been planted and that he did not stay in the room that night.[60] In 2002, he was banned for eight months by the Italian Cycling Federation, but he later won an appeal due to an absence of proof.[34][61]
In 2006, two years after his death, Pantani was linked to the Operación Puerto doping case. According to documentation released by Spanish radio network Cadena SER, Pantani was allegedly given the code name "PTNI" by Eufemiano Fuentes, with a detailed program in 2003, his last season, including EPO, growth hormone, Insulin, Levothroid and IGF-1.[62] Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera indicated that he was administered over 40,000 units of EPO, seven doses of growth hormone, thirty doses of anabolic steroids and four doses of hormones used to treat menopause.[63] In 2006 Jesús Manzano, a Spanish professional road racing cyclist whose statements led the Guardia Civil to conduct the Operación Puerto investigation, disclosed in an interview with French television channel France 3 that Pantani was a client of Eufemiano Fuentes.[64]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantanimight be wejo wrote:
He was too consistent. Kiprop at least loses sometimes.
Or is inconsistency more indicative of doping and trying to duck testers? Sometimes on (had a few weeks of good therapy or a transfusion), sometimes off (testers been hounding my area).
The same for the logic that he ran faster than someone else who doped and was caught. I can take all the drugs I want, but would never come close to his times, and probably not even a womens WR at this point (I'm a male).
Please.stop.Mobot.anyone!!! wrote:
Uneducated wrote:This isn't logical reasoning, but El G was my childhood hero, so its hard for me to think that he did dope. But every child's dreams are crushed eventually, so I suppose it is possible...
He never tested positive.
Marco Pantani never tested positive:
During the 2001 Giro d'Italia, a syringe containing traces of insulin was found in Pantani's room. Pantani claimed that the insulin had been planted and that he did not stay in the room that night.[60] In 2002, he was banned for eight months by the Italian Cycling Federation, but he later won an appeal due to an absence of proof.[34][61]
In 2006, two years after his death, Pantani was linked to the Operación Puerto doping case. According to documentation released by Spanish radio network Cadena SER, Pantani was allegedly given the code name "PTNI" by Eufemiano Fuentes, with a detailed program in 2003, his last season, including EPO, growth hormone, Insulin, Levothroid and IGF-1.[62] Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera indicated that he was administered over 40,000 units of EPO, seven doses of growth hormone, thirty doses of anabolic steroids and four doses of hormones used to treat menopause.[63] In 2006 Jesús Manzano, a Spanish professional road racing cyclist whose statements led the Guardia Civil to conduct the Operación Puerto investigation, disclosed in an interview with French television channel France 3 that Pantani was a client of Eufemiano Fuentes.[64]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantani
Pantani never tested positive but was later found out doping, so therefore El G must have been doping, too. Great logic!
Why does it matter if he was doping or not?
Nope., wrote:
Please.stop.Mobot.anyone!!! wrote:He never tested positive.
Marco Pantani never tested positive:
During the 2001 Giro d'Italia, a syringe containing traces of insulin was found in Pantani's room. Pantani claimed that the insulin had been planted and that he did not stay in the room that night.[60] In 2002, he was banned for eight months by the Italian Cycling Federation, but he later won an appeal due to an absence of proof.[34][61]
In 2006, two years after his death, Pantani was linked to the Operación Puerto doping case. According to documentation released by Spanish radio network Cadena SER, Pantani was allegedly given the code name "PTNI" by Eufemiano Fuentes, with a detailed program in 2003, his last season, including EPO, growth hormone, Insulin, Levothroid and IGF-1.[62] Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera indicated that he was administered over 40,000 units of EPO, seven doses of growth hormone, thirty doses of anabolic steroids and four doses of hormones used to treat menopause.[63] In 2006 Jesús Manzano, a Spanish professional road racing cyclist whose statements led the Guardia Civil to conduct the Operación Puerto investigation, disclosed in an interview with French television channel France 3 that Pantani was a client of Eufemiano Fuentes.[64]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_PantaniPantani never tested positive but was later found out doping, so therefore El G must have been doping, too. Great logic!
Oh great - I haven't tested positive either. I must be doping too!
Dear OP,
I doped.
Sincerely,
El G
ps. This post is real!
Why do pppl like to say "never tested positive"?
Why not say "always tested negative"?
Or is there a reason?
Ran spectacular times near the height of the EPO craze. Faster than "positive A" Lagat.
not positive = negative? wrote:
Why do pppl like to say "never tested positive"?
Why not say "always tested negative"?
Or is there a reason?
There is no "negative" result. They either detect the substance tested for, tests positive, or it shows nothing.
eimpped wrote:
might be wejo wrote:He was too consistent. Kiprop at least loses sometimes.
Or is inconsistency more indicative of doping and trying to duck testers? Sometimes on (had a few weeks of good therapy or a transfusion), sometimes off (testers been hounding my area).
The same for the logic that he ran faster than someone else who doped and was caught. I can take all the drugs I want, but would never come close to his times, and probably not even a womens WR at this point (I'm a male).
In fact both consistency and inconsistency are more indicative of doping. Likewise, both being faster and slower are more indicative of doping. Because this is the place where your dreams become reality, you can interpret any data or non-data any way you want, to suit whatever conclusion you have already made.
This post was removed.
Of all the athletes who never tested positive, EL G is, for me, the most obviously doped athlete in history.
1) he ran at the height of the EPO era when there was no testing at all until 2000, and after that we know the testing was poor and unreliable until after he retired.
2) He was Moroccan and the majority of his peers and training partners were found to have doped. The idea that all Moroccans dope apart from the one who was head and shoulders above all others, is inconceivable.
3) The times he ran ( and fellow dopers like Lagat and Ngeny) were far beyond the historical rate of progression in their events. The times they ran aren't really being approached even today, apart from an athlete who competes for a nation that has had no random testing until this year, whose federation has been proven to be corrupt and whose agent/ coach has recently been arrested for possession and distribution of PEDs.
4) EL G ran fast times, close to WR times, not once or twice during a 2 or 3 year peak period, but on a regular, fort nightly basis, throughout a season, for many seasons. His rate of recovery has never been seen before or since. It was super human.
5) Never ran competitively over 800m and had a very slow pb, 1:47, despite clearly being able to run much faster. Perhaps, like Lagat, he wasn't capable of running the 1:43 that he should have been able to, and didn't want the world to see that discrepancy between what a 3:26 athlete should run 800 and what he actually could have. OTT endurance with inferior 400/800 speed.
6) braces worn late in career.
7) showing total lack of fatigue at end of WR runs.
He was as guilty as hell!
coach, country, training partners all doping, plus degree of superiority over the rest of the world for so long in the EPO era. of course, I loved to watch El Guerrouj and would love to hear that he was actually, secretly, entirely clean.
El G's retirement at 30, after winning double gold, after moving up to 5000m and showing such greatness there, is pretty telling. They knew the WADA testing era was upon them. Morceli retired at 30 but he had had been eclipsed by others...not the case for El G.