800m under 1:55

You'll probably need to be about a second faster in the 400m to break 1:55. Also What is your current 800m PR and what is your mile PR as well as your mileage at the time of these PR's.

My pr mile during outdoor season was 4:29. And when I trained I focused on speed workouts and I was prolly in 25mpw range. I never knew what to run.

5/10

Three quality sessions a week. One of them is a 40-60min. "long run" done at your easy pace. The other two are interval sessions (i.e. 6 x 200m at 800 pace, 200m jog, 4 x 400m/400m jog at mile pace + 4 x 200m @ 800m pace/200m jog). Once every two weeks, replace an intervals session with a tempo run. This can be a 20min tempo at "comfortably uncomfortable" pace (as in not dying/hoping it'll end, you should feel like you could've gone for another 30min if needed). More Tempo examples; 5 x 1000m @ Tempo Pace with 60 secs. jog, 3 x Mile @ Tempo Pace with 60 secs. jog.

The rest of the week should be easy jogging days lasting at least 30min (if that's too much for your current fitness, then take the day off or do a low-impact exercise like swimming, cycling, yoga, chores, etc.). If you have a race that week, do the intervals or tempo session as scheduled; in this case make sure the interval recoveries are increased to reduce the chances of being too exhausted (i.e. 4 x 200m @ 800m pace, 400m jog).

Here how this would look like (ST means a stride, as in a 10-15sec. acceleration done at roughly 800-mile pace with 20-30s walking/jogging recovery. They can be done at the end or in the middle of an easy run. They're not supposed to be difficult at all. I prescribed an amount to do, but if you start to feel exhausted then go ahead and stop. It's not about how many you do in a day as it is how many you can do consistently weeks in weeks out).

Week 1

Mon: 40-60 min. Long Run + 6 x ST

Tue: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Wed: 10min. E; 6 x 200m @ goal 800m pace, 200m jog; 10-20min. E

Thu: Easy Day + 10 x ST

Fri: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Sat: 10min. E, 5 x 1000m @ Tempo Pace, 10min.

Sun: Easy Day

Week 2

Mon: 40-60 min. Long Run + 6 x ST

Tue: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Wed: 10min. E; 6 x 200m @ goal 800m pace, 200m jog; 10-20min. E

Thu: Easy Day + 10 x ST

Fri: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Sat: 10min. E, 4 x 400m/400m jog at mile pace + 2-4 x 200m @ 800m pace/200m jog, 10min. E

Sun: Easy Day

Racing Week

Mon: 40-60 min. Long Run + 6 x ST

Tue: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Wed: 10min. E; 20min @ Tempo or 4 x 200m @ 800m-mile pace (It shouldn't be your race pace, it should feel rather relaxed, 400m jog) + 1 x 100m sprint/100m walk + 1 x 50m dash; 10min. E

Thu: Easy Day + 10 x ST

Fri: Easy Day + 8 x ST

Sat: Race.

Sun: Easy Day

(Another workout to consider using 10 days out from a goal race: 1 x 400m @ goal 800m pace, 2-3min. recovery, + 1 x 300m @ goal 800m pace).

Running more miles helps build the aerobic base, which will help you to maintain an aggressive pace and not burn out on the second 400m. The tempos help the body deal with lactate acid, the main enemy of the 800m (the burning in the legs), I hope this has helped, and thanks for reading. Best of luck.

Yes thanks man that helped a lot. Gonna give what you said a try and see how it goes!

This may sound dumb.. Lol but what would be my tempo pace?

Your tempo pace is different from everyone's, so its hard to give you an exact pace, but it should feel like the pace that is "comfortably hard", which is equivalent to the pace that feels like if you went any faster then your body couldn't clear the lactic acid from your muscles fast enough to make it sustainable. So just under your lactic threshold so that you aren't netting a surplus of lactic acid as you continue to run, which has to be done by feel really

What hypo said is correct, it really is a feeling. It should feel like your letting your running form/cadence take you, and thinking "I'm not exerting any real effort; I'm relaxed". If you'd like a number, then Jack Daniel's VDOT table suggests that someone with a 4:30 mile should be hitting 80secs./400m, 3:21min./km or 5:24min./mile (all these paces are the same speed) on a tempo run. That pace should feel comfortably uncomfortable and not like a time trial. A few seconds give/take shouldn't really matter, especially if you've haven't done tempos before.

What would you classify as an 'easy day'

That's one way to coach, but this runner specifically needs to work on their 400 speed. Also, what benefit is a long run to a race that goes for less than 2 minutes?

The idea that you need aerobic work to not burn out for the 2nd lap is half the story. The other half is that the faster your flat 400 is, the more comfortable a 59 first lap will feel. It's called speed reserve. Too many focus solely o n aerobic work for the 2nd lap, when increasing speed also helps your 2nd lap. You need to work o n both.

I think you need to do this - say :

Day 1 - light day, or cross train (eg swim)

Day 2 - vVo2 max work - google Veronique Billat. It's basically training hard easy, hard at 2km speed, and easy at 60% of that speed, start at 12-15 x 1/1 91 min hard 1 min easy), move to 6-7 x 2/2 and then 5 x 3/3

Day 3 - easier day - 25 min run, first 10 warm up and last 15 tempo again

Day 4 - fartlek/interval work at about 3-5km speed, maybe a bunch of diagonals after this or after day 2, gym in the evening (run first gym later)

Day 5 - recovery run

Day 6 - speed development, plyos, sleds, short hills etc

Day 7 - first two months 40 min progressive run (very relaxed first 15 mins, and steadily wind it up so the last 15 mins or so is tempo pace), then moving into cruise intervals (6 x 1km at 5-7km speed, on the 5 minutes, so you'll get about 90 secs rest). Gym in the evening

In pre-comp day 2 gets faster to 800-1km speed work, day 4 moves to training at mile-3km speed, day 6 moves to speed development combined with special endurance 1(ie 100-200 work) and day 7 stays at cruise intervals. Basically day 6 goes from short alactic stuff, to special endurance 1, to special endurance 2 as you get through the season. Days 2 and 4 get progressively faster, day 6 stretches out.

But you need a good speed and strength coach. If you don't know what I mean by any of this, I can help with sessions. But the money sessions for 800, when you train at 800 speed, involve reps of at least 300m.

I meant a 55-56 first lap by the way

Caster?

I wouldn't do 4x 400 with 400 jog at mile pace.. That's too slow. Do it at 800m pace

I wish I knew what some of that stuff meant. Like 12-15 91 min hard 1 min easy and the 6-7 stuff. Any help?

From what I know wrote:

I wouldn't do 4x 400 with 400 jog at mile pace.. That's too slow. Do it at 800m pace

You can't do 4 x 400 at 800 pace with only a 400 jog recovery - unless it's a very very slow jog. You need about 4 min rest.

And that is a classic and very good session for the 800. One you have to master to run a good 800.

Mr karma police, I would beg to differ especially when I'm in peak Shape with a solid base of work under me.

That guys training is more geared to 1500

When we would do mile paced work it would be something like 3x3x400 with 90s rest and 3 min between sets (set 1-2 60-62, set 3 58-60)

Our pr's ranged from 3:42-48.

800m sessions would be something like 5x 400 with 400m jog (about 4 min like u said) @ 55-52/53 so we typically started around 55 down to 52ish on the last one or two.

The 800 is not a grueling race.. The workouts are

We also did something like 600 reverse ladder. 6,5,4,3,2,2 with demishing recovery. 600 would be like 1:22, 6 min rec, then the pace would get quicker as we go with less rest.

Our pr's ranged from 1:46-49

And by "that guy" I meant another high school coach. His training seems more geared to an 800/1500 guy whose primarily a 15 guy.

Yes that is a classic 800m workout. Sometimes closer to championship season we would do 4x400 with 5 min rest at our first lap speed so 52ish. Man that was a fun workout I just remember it being a hot one. We got in lanes for that one lol

I pulled that schedule straight out of Daniel's Distance Formula, the only consideration for 400/800 types being how fast the reps are, so I guess you're correct on that one. I forget that there's such thing as speed based athletes sometimes, it's the final weeks of base training for XC season right now at my school so I just thinking "miles, miles, miles".

From what I know wrote:

Mr karma police, I would beg to differ especially when I'm in peak Shape with a solid base of work under me.

800m sessions would be something like 5x 400 with 400m jog (about 4 min like u said) @ 55-52/53 so we typically started around 55 down to 52ish on the last one or two.

You're not really begging to differ though. You're agreeing with me. To run 4x400 at 800 pace, you need about 4 min recov. Maybe 3 depending on the runner. And another way to do it is like this - 2 x (2x400) with 2 mins between reps and 5 between sets, so it's two pairs of 400s with 2 min rest, and only a short 5 min rest between pairs. Still ends up 9 mins recovery. I find doing them that way a runner can race a bit faster than their average time for those 400s. And I do it as race practice - the 1st 400 is like the first lap, the middle two are 200-600, and the last one is like the last lap of a race. You can even start the middle two at the 200 start to mimic a race.