I'm pretty curious as to whether or not i'll have a shot at sub 2 800m next year. Going into my senior year with pr's of 4:55 and 2:14. At this time, my 200m pr was only 29. Today i ran 200m just for fun, and clocked in at 26 mid. Is this speed adequate so i can just focus on endurance, or do i need sub 25 second speed. Thanks!
26 mid is sufficient for sub 2
While 26.5 for 200 is fast enough to run sub 2, you can't just stop working on speed and focus on endurance. If you just focus on endurance you will be back to only running 29 for 200 by the spring.
turtle mania wrote:
I'm pretty curious as to whether or not i'll have a shot at sub 2 800m next year. Going into my senior year with pr's of 4:55 and 2:14. At this time, my 200m pr was only 29. Today i ran 200m just for fun, and clocked in at 26 mid. Is this speed adequate so i can just focus on endurance, or do i need sub 25 second speed. Thanks!
It think it's a long shot. I went sub 2 by going down to 2:02-2:08 the year before.
I have no idea what my 200 time was we had sprinters on our team for that.
You may need sub-55 400 metres speed at a minimum. That means you need to get yourself to sub-25.5 speed to be safe. I know many sub-2 800 metres men. All sub-2 800 metres men I know are also sub-54 400 metres men. If you're a female, you may not need sub-54 400 metres speed to race sub-2 800 metres.
If you really truly can only run 26.5 or so for a 200m, no chance in the world that you get to sub 2. 0% chance.
different perspective wrote:
If you really truly can only run 26.5 or so for a 200m, no chance in the world that you get to sub 2. 0% chance.
Not true.
At a high school level, sub 55 quarter speed is generally the prerequisite for sub 2 800, and most of the guys breaking 2 with only 54.xx quarter speed are mid 4:20 milers.
Realistically you're probably not looking at sub 2 this year. Set reasonable goals--as a senior who's trained in previous years and is coming into the season with a 2:14 PR, hitting 2:03 - 2:05 would already be pretty ambitious.
Absolutely do not neglect speed. 26 mid 200 speed can get you under 2 if you're a 4:25 miler, but chances are that you won't make that kind of jump in your senior season (if by some miracle you do, disregard everything I say here and run 1:59/4:25/9:30 or something).
hs'ers are so often undertrained, particularly aerobically, and only starting to develop their physical strength, that they can easily realize large gains. But you are right that going from 2:14 to sub 2 in one year is unlikely without really good coaching. You will want to improve your endurance during the fall and winter, while maintaining and improving your speed with lots of plyometrics, short steep hill sprints, frequent strides, hard 150s, 200s, 300s, 400s, and 500s. Get in the weight room as well and do squats with proper technique. Eat a good deal of lean protein and get plenty of sleep. And try to find good training partners, even if that means you are training some of the time with sprinters and some of the time with post-collegians in your area in the summer.
different perspective wrote:
If you really truly can only run 26.5 or so for a 200m, no chance in the world that you get to sub 2. 0% chance.
I did. All slow twitch. Never broke 27. Did a 1:59.1.
I was just about as slow twitch as it gets myself and could easily run in the 25s and was barely below a 2:00 800 level guy in college (I was a 5k-10k runner). That was as a 20-21 year old with many years of 50-75 mile weeks of training under my belt. No way an undertrained high school kid gets to 1:59 off 26.5 speed. Everyone needs to remember comparing yourself and your speed as an adult is not a fair comparison to a developing high school kid.
Keep running those miles, hitting those workouts kid and who knows how fast you'll get. Racing is the only way to find out, good luck!
I did. I ran 1:59 at high school with a 55 400m. 25 200m actually from blocks properly timed (not a rolling start timed by yourself) is pretty fast for a sub 2:00 guy.
no wrote:
I did. I ran 1:59 at high school with a 55 400m. 25 200m actually from blocks properly timed (not a rolling start timed by yourself) is pretty fast for a sub 2:00 guy.
What could you do for the 16/32?
Pretty much all high school 800 guys approaching things from the speed based side--the guys that are running on 4x4s and breaking 2 off of ~4:40 or slower mile PRs--are capable of 25 FAT in the 200 (maybe 25.5 if they're really awful at the start), alongside ~52.5s quarters.
Even the true 800 guys--the ones running along the lines of 53.5/1:59/4:35--are almost always going to run sub 55 in order to break 2. There are plenty of guys who spend most of their high school running career in the 2:00 - 2:02 range, but are held back by their speed.
The high schooler who runs 1:59 with a >55s 400 is a real anomaly, not the norm. I've known a few of these kids, and they were the crazy tough XC types--low 9 minute 3200 dudes who ran in the low 15 range on hilly XC 5ks. All of them had monster aerobic engines and many of them went on to be solid 10k guys, marathoners, and triathletes in and after college.
On that note, college and adult athletes running sub 2 without 55s quarter speed is far more common--these athletes are running significantly higher volume than most high schoolers and generally have several extra years of aerobic development. It's a very different ballgame at that point.
like 4:45 for the 1600 never did the 32.
The thing we keep dancing around is that guys who could run 1:59 in HS with only 26.5 200m times, almost never run 800s at meets with the competition for them to need to run 1:59. They are even less likely to have run a competitive 400 and have basically 0% chance of practicing the blocks or ever even running a 200 with FAT timing.
They would have to be something like a 9:10 guy (with 26.5 200 speed) who can only run 4:25 who could break 2 if they ran their end of the year meets in the 800. But why would they when they can go to emerging elite nationals in the 3200?
I knew a 9:40 (much better at XC) guy who never broke 4:40 despite running the 1600 a lot for points. He ran the first leg of our 4 x 800, fresh, in 2:09 week after week. He claimed he had never broken 60 for a 400 but ran a 61 on cinders at the end of a 10 x 400 workout. There is almost no doubt he could have run 58.X from blocks on tartan, which would be about 26.5 for 200.
My experience tells me that you should listen to Cali boy.