Boston Marathon 2003....whose running?

Gabriele Rosa (everyone calls him "Dr." and no one seems to call him "Coach", gotta love it) usually brings a few of his fellas. Rodgers Rop (defending champ) has signed on. Usually a couple of good South Africans as well.

And don't forget the Old Bastard Division runners (40+ years old) -- b/c Boston pays the winner of the OBD VERY well, the first few OBs there run in the low to mid-teens, which lately gets a regular-aged male American runner lionized.

Only high-profile Yank I have heard abt is Eddy Hellebuyck. Lots of the other Yanks will either be taking the spring window off (a la D Browne) or running the Mercedes/US champs in 'bama.

McVeigh

From reading past posts, it is obvious that you have great knowledge about the Boston Marathon. With this year's race being my first, would you kindly post some race strategy advice to maximize the effort at Boston. I have heard from others that taking the pace out too quick in the first 4 miles can come back to bite you in the ass.

I have incorporated running up and down a mile long steep bridge for long runs into my training and would also be interested in hearing any other tips you can provide.

Lastly, are there any other pre-race tips unique to Boston, such as taking the course tour the day before or anything else.

Any help would be appreciated.

The top US runner at Boston this year is a master??? No knock against Eddy (a terrific athlete), but why can't Boston get the younger guys to run?

A couple of factors currently plague Boston...

-It's not flat and not necessarily fast

-The current obsession with world records Boston is point to point w/elevation loss, and therefore disqualified (see AlSal)

-London, the day before. Closely related to the item above.

-World Championship year (funks up schedules, see Dr. Joe's post)

-National Championships in Feb (see previous post)

Actually, last year was a pretty good year for younger guys. A couple of Hansons boys went pretty quick and Dowling lowered his PR. Last year Cox had to pull out at the last minute due to an infection.

oh, I'm in.

FWIW, I have run Boston 5x -- if that ups my cred, so be it. A course tour would help IMO.

You have two correct things on your mind already -- be cautious regarding the early miles, and train to run up and then down a big hill. I can help refine these ideas a bit (a little bit later)

First, bear in mind that you may want to bring "extras" to the start

-- extra food/water/Gatorade b/c you'll be leaving for the start early and spending a lot of time there, so if you prefer to have less than 5 hrs between eating and running, you'll have to bring some grub with you to Hopkinton.

-- extra sweats that you are willing to discard forever, b/c you have to drop off your baggage (for transport to the finish) a LONG time before the race starts and you may want to keep something on until only a few minutes remain.

As for the early going, the first mile practically runs itself, b/c the starting line itself is on a steep downhill. So go easy and be SMOOTH -- don't overstride or you will pay for it badly. There are a couple of "hiccup" uphills in the first 4mi but not much.

And splits are f---ed up by the early downhills, so get nimble with mental math. Work out your "pace" starting from your 4mi split -- where the flatter running really starts. For example your 5mi split has 4 "rocket" miles and one "real" mile so don't panic about "slowing down ALREADY."

Similarly, around 17-21mi you run the uphills and you will turn out far slower mile splits. It's natural, just keep passing guys and that can be your barometer. As you imagine, your pace will be "front-loaded" and the "right" first/second half splits are goofy. I have seen "Boston Marathon Pace Calculators" on the web that calcualte synthetic "even splits" -- a simple web search should reveal them quickly enough.

There's nothing like running past Wellesley College at the 20k mark. Be very conscious to KEEP your pace -- many guys get carried away here and accelerate unconsciously.

And at the 25k/16mi or so mark, there is a fairly sharp downhill that may pound the last freshness out of your legs, so Here, too, take it smooth, no loping strides, b/c shortly thereafter you start climbing -- the "Newton Hills" are 4 separate climbs between 17 and 21 mi. Good things to know:

-- All are less than half a mile

-- The first one's the steepest

-- After each one, you get a flat stretch or even a little downslope to regather

-- The last one's the longest and is called "Heartbreak" only b/c a guy once lost the race there

-- The crowds are thick and loud and helpful throughout the hills

The largely downhill 2mi from 21-23 are tough and the pavement's not that good so you sometimes get a wobble-step like in XC. Can be very painful for the quads most times, feeling sore and stiff is natural. But if you do not feel DIRE quad distress by the 22mi mark, you're probably out of the woods as far as severe trauma goes.

Your "long-uphill, long-downhill" trainign could make a big difference from 17-23 mi. If you can work it into your long runs so that you do 15 mi or running and then go right into a "long down--long up--long down" sequence (then a flat mile at least before stopping) it's even better.

I will be out of the country on vacation, and not web-connected, until mid-February. If you want to know more, "bump" this topic in mid-late February to give me a chance to see it again.

Stay healthy - -that's the main thing --

JAM

Joe Thank you for the great advice.

I hope to run a good race, I am due for a good one in Boston .

Eddy

Eddy, a guy who rocketed down Mt Hood like you did should have less trouble with the quads than most, whicyh should be a great thing to have in the arsenal after 21 mi.

JAM, from cybercafe in nce (slopes closed yesterday, sprained wrist today, so have to waste time somehow, at least I can still run)

One thing to add. Although the Newton hills start at the fire station turn on to Commonwealth Ave (not long after 17 miles), don't forget that huge, long, Auburndale hill starting at around 16 miles. It's a long, long, upslope that goes from Newton Lower falls, over Rte 128, to Newton Wellesley Hospital (Auburndale). It starts right after the steepest downhill on the course out of Wellesley. It is almost 3/4 mile long and is tough. Not because of the incline, but because of the length.

I have a copy of Bill Squires approach to running Boston somewhere around here. He breaks it down into a few segments with very specific strategies. If ever there was someone to listen to about how to run Boston, it would be Bill Squires. I'll try to type it up tonight and add it to this thread.

The "hospitql hill" was the 1st of the 4 identifiqble one I meqnt. Sorry if not cleqr. But I qm NO ONE compqred to Mr. Squires. Read & understqnd that guide.

Here is the calculator:

http://www.rrca.org/publicat/baasplit.html

Average_Joe wrote:

I have a copy of Bill Squires approach to running Boston somewhere around here. He breaks it down into a few segments with very specific strategies. If ever there was someone to listen to about how to run Boston, it would be Bill Squires. I'll try to type it up tonight and add it to this thread.

Finally found it. It's in my copy of Higdon's book on Boston. Much of it is obvious, but some might find it interesting:

-------------------------------

Analyzing Boston's Course:

While preparing athletes to excel in the Boston Marathon, coach Bill Squires minutely analyzed the course. "I probably spent more time looking at the route from Hopkinton than anyone," says the Greater Boston Track Club mentor. he even rolled golf balls along the road to identify its cant. Both for training and strategic purposes, Squires divides Boston into four midcourse segments, not counting the start and finish.

Prelude: Hopkinton to Natick (0-10 miles)

PROFILE: Elevation drops from 462 to 177 feet.

ANALYSIS: Squires sees this stretch as preparing to race. He advises not to run it too fast. "Nobody likes the first mile and a half because it drops so sharply," says Squires, "but after that you have a nice, undulating terrain and good footing."

ADVICE: Have fun. Take it easy.

1. Natick to Wellesley Square (10-13.1 miles)

PROFILE: Elevation drops from 177 to 137 feet.

ANALYSIS: This segment includes a few mild hills but nothing challenging. Runners need to watch the slant of the road to avoid running on an angle. "There's always two or three wild guys darting out i front," he says. "Behind are overmatched runners trying to hang on. Between is the midpack rolling along in control--and that's where you winners come from."

ADVICE: Stay alert. Hold position.

2. Wellesley Squre to Newton Lower Falls (13.1-16 miles)

PROFILE: Elevation drops from 137 to 49 feet.

ANALYSIS: Other than the opening mile, the drop to Newton Lower Falls is the longest and steepest hill on the course. "The hill lasts three-quarters of a mile," he warns. "You can really destroy your legs if you overrun it trying to stay up."

ADVICE: Yield ground cautiously.

Newton Lower Falls to Cleveland Circle (16-22 miles)

PROFILE: Elevation rises from 49 to 236 feet, then drops to 147 feet.

ANALYSIS: Squires calls this stretch the Killer Chain. Runners must negotiate a chain of stepped hills culminating with the infamous Heartbreak. Then they encounter a sharp decline past Boston College. "Everyone overlooks the first hill before the Fire House," says Squires, "but it sets you up for the tough stuff later. Boston can be won or lost here."

ADVICE: Relax on the ups; run the flats and downs hard.

Cleveland Circle to Kenmore Square

PROFILE: Elevation drops from 147 to 20 feet.

ANALYSIS: This last segment goes downhill, but gently down. "If you keep your concentration, you can run fast up while still recovering," says Squires. Opponents who have been softened on the uphills can be dropped during this downhill segment.

ADVICE: Keep your focus maintain your speed

Coda: Kenmore Square to Finish (25-26.2 miles)

PROFILE: Flat with slight incline on Hereford Street

ANALYSIS: Very few marathons are won or lost in the last mile. Squire's athletes don't train on this part of the course. "There's too much traffice," he says.

ADVICE: Concentrate on form. Smile breasting the tape

Squires made his course analysis to aid runners capable of winning Boston or placing in the top ten. But the same analysis works for midpack runners attempting to achieve personal bests. "Runners who start behind become frustrated in the first three miles down to Ashland because crowded conditions prevent them from running full speed," says Squires. "But when the course opens up, the have to remain in control, at least through Wellesley. If you can maintain your composure, you'll pass a lot of people in the last half of the race"

Squires adds: "Running the marathon is like a game of chess. Those who have the most pawns win at the end."

Boston's unique topography makes it a NET downhill race on paper, however, it's still certainly not as fast as a flat course. Not even close. Any "aiding" at Boston depends on the capricious nature of the northwesterly winds. Even with the benefit of a tailwind, the course is such that your legs take an awful beating.

Notice that during the first mile (a) there is a drop of 130 ft. At the end of four miles (b), a net drop of 310 ft. Anyone who's ever run a marathon knows that the first four miles means nothing and any gains during those first four miles are going to be negligible -- especially in world-class fields. From four to 21 miles (b-d) there is an elevation RISE of 50 ft., leading to a quad-destroying drop of 220 ft. over the last five miles (e-f). I cannot name one runner who has ever said that they were "aided" during those last five miles of Boston, can you? To the contrary, the race history is riddled with dozens of runners making it through 21 miles ahead of world-record pace -- facing only downhill ahead -- and then being cruelly humbled by the final descent.

I cannot stress it enough the two most significant features of Boston's course are the downhills at (c) Newton Lower Falls (-100ft. at 15.5 miles) and (e) St. Ignatious Church (-80 ft. at 21 miles after Heartbreak). That -80 ft. drop at St. Ignatious is more like -100 ft because there is a little rise after it to the 22 mile checkpoint. Those downhills kill the superstars and plodders alike.

Here are the elevations above sea level of the mile marks on the Boston Marathon course.

Mileage City/Town Elevation ft. Netchange

Start Hopkinton 490 N/A

1.0 Hopkinton 360 -130 (a)

2.0 Ashland 320 -40

3.0 Ashland 265 -55

4.0 Ashland 180 -85 (b)

5.0 Framingham 205 +25

6.0 Framingham 180 -25

7.0 Framingham 155 -25

8.0 Natick 180 +25

9.0 Natick 150 -30

10.0 Natick 170 +20

11.0 Natick 180 +10

12.0 Wellesley 165 -15

13.0 Wellesley 145 -20

14.0 Wellesley 130 -15

15.0 Wellesley 160 +30

16.0 Newton/LowerFalls 60 -100 (c)

17.0 Newton 115 +55

18.0 West Newton 145 +30

19.0 Newton 130 -15

20.0 Newton 150 +20

21.0 ChestnutHill 230 +80 (d)

22.0 Boston/Brighton 150 -80 (e)

23.0 Brookline 95 -55

24.0 Brookline 60 -35

25.0 Boston/Back Bay 15 -45

26.0 Boston/Back Bay 10 -5

26.2 Finish 10 0 (f)

I find this thread interesting and valuable as I too am running Boston this year.

M. Squires' advice to take it easy up the hills and run faster on the flats and downs is appealing.

It seems everyone, Joe McVeigh included, suggest a very controlled beginning. But my fuzzy memory thinks Joe ran something like 1:06/1:10 splits on his fastest day. And when Joanie Benoit ran 2:21 she was out in approx. 51 minutes for 10 miles (107/114??). I think 'tough bastards' can get big benefit from being on a HOT pace with encouraging splits.

Additionally, I remember John Treacy telling someone at a Boston Expo many years back (I'm paraphrasing) that he thought you definitely shouldn't hold back too much on those early downhills as the braking action could be worse on your legs.

great thread

[back from vacation]

Wow, a detail person....yup, I front-load the first half at Boston. That's just the way the course runs. I just try to "flow" the first 4mi, keeping the leg turns quick (like pedaling a bike) so the strides are short and the4 impact is light.

FWIW, on my fastest overall time at Boston I was 1:07:10/1:09:38. And my half-mar PR is on that course, 1:06:53 in 1994, and despite the very favorable wind that day I paid the price "malmo" outlined when, at St. Ignatious, I went from "I'm gonna break 2:15" to "How can legs hurt this much without bursting into flame?" in the space of 100 yards. First half under 1:07, second half over 1:12.

So what should you do besides running some downhills in training? Would a good weight lifting routine on the legs help as well?

[Caveat: I'm not a ex-phys guy, I'm just a guy, and I don't do weight work for my legs -- so if you know what you;re talking about and recognize that the following is a load of crap, please correct it.]

I would do that only if you already do some leg work. You want strong quads to manage the extra pounding of the downhill but I wouldn't get carried away on the squat rack, because the short, channeled stroke of that exercise may end up compromising flexibility -- you don't have to be hockey-goalie not which if carried to the extreme could have you working too hard to flex the muscle in a basic running motion.

But IMO the best way to train to run downhills is to run downhills. There's little substitute for putting in your steps on a daily basis.

Mark Carroll........remember that name baby cos u know hes goin to win!!

McVeigh, You rule! I will take your advice to heart and hopefully run a fast one (after 7 failed attempts). One quick question, everyone tells you where not to push the course - so, where do we push the course for those fast times??