Isn't the better question Ali vs. Mr. Sandman?
Isn't the better question Ali vs. Mr. Sandman?
Doc Brown wrote:
Isn't the better question Ali vs. Mr. Sandman?
A few points:
1. 007 373 5963
2. Looking back thru that game, can you imagine the PC uproar that those characters woulda created if it came out now? The Middle Eastern Sandman? Japanese Piston Honda? The drunk Russian Popinski? Man, remember back when you could make playful stereotypes without everyone throwing a tantrum?
3. Back to the original topic, I am too young to remember Ali, but Tyson was probably the scariest man alive when I was growing up. Tyson benefits from better video quality than Ali had, but youtube some Tyson highlights. It will make your jaw hurt.
4. The Bleacher Report article was very well done. Probably carries more weight than anything else on this thread.
5. Out of pure stubbornness and connections to my childhood, I dont think anyone will ever convince me that Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, or Tiger Woods weren't the GOATs at their particular sports in their prime. But, admittedly, we all like to think we saw the greatest...that is why I am such a huge Rupp fan ;-)
Greatest ever was most likely Jack Dempsey, Ali top 5 for sure, however he would have lost to Tyson in his prime.
I can't believe so many people think Tyson would win. Tyson wasn't even that good. He beat up on tomatoe cans. A few have mention Spinks. He was not a true heavyweight. He took the fight for a payday and laid down. Name me one memorable fight Tyson was in compared to Ali. Ali had the 3 Frazier fights, 2with Norton and winning after having his jaw broken. Beating 2 guys that were thought to be invincible Liston and Foreman. Tyson just swarmed nobodies who hit the canvas. Ali could take a punch where as Tyson had a glass jaw.
This is embarrassing to read. People still talk about Ali's fight 40 years later. What great memory do we have of Tyson. Getting his butt kicked the first time he fought a real boxer in Douglas or biting off Evander ear. Tyson was a creation of the media.
Versus Tyson...
Ali wins by unanimous decision
Foreman wins by KO
Norton... tossup. If Norton makes it to the 4th round, Norton wins by decision.
Frazier... Tyson. Frazier if it goes to the 4th round by KO.
Tyson would have never been a heavyweight champion if he had fought in the era of these guys.
fisky wrote:
Versus Tyson...
Ali wins by unanimous decision
Foreman wins by KO
Norton... tossup. If Norton makes it to the 4th round, Norton wins by decision.
Frazier... Tyson. Frazier if it goes to the 4th round by KO.
Tyson would have never been a heavyweight champion if he had fought in the era of these guys.
I could see swapping the Norton and Frazier predictions but that is a solid post.
Foreman would have turned Tyson's lights out but that would have been fun, some big bombs thrown in that fight.
Fred Gwynne wrote:
I can't believe so many people think Tyson would win. Tyson wasn't even that good. He beat up on tomatoe cans. A few have mention Spinks. He was not a true heavyweight. He took the fight for a payday and laid down. Name me one memorable fight Tyson was in compared to Ali. Ali had the 3 Frazier fights, 2with Norton and winning after having his jaw broken. Beating 2 guys that were thought to be invincible Liston and Foreman. Tyson just swarmed nobodies who hit the canvas. Ali could take a punch where as Tyson had a glass jaw.
This is embarrassing to read. People still talk about Ali's fight 40 years later. What great memory do we have of Tyson. Getting his butt kicked the first time he fought a real boxer in Douglas or biting off Evander ear. Tyson was a creation of the media.
This
What do you expect from let's runners of whom 1% have been in a fight, getting beat on in high school does not count. Let alone anyone who has any understanding of prof boxing. Just like McGregor runs his mouth about wanting to fight Mayaeather in boxing. What a joke.
Watching rocky and fights on TV does not make you knowledgeable. Makes you think you are.
Tyson at his best, not sure you can define his prime, would have had a punchers chance. All the other reasons in favor of Ali aside, Tyson would have been at a 7 inch reach disadvantage allowing Ali to jab the heck out of Tyson. Ali was excellent at slipping and taking a punch. Ali was also a smart fighter and would box the fight, such subtlety in what he did sometimes, setting up his opponent.
I just do not see what Tyson would finishes 1st round bull rush failed to put Ali out. Not just down but out.
Ali was a big man comparable to Tyson and would have had the size advantage as well. From afar Tyson's best. Have would have been to surprise Ali and hope Ali took him for granted.
Ali probably 19 times out of 20. But hey it only takes 1 time.
Ali 6'3' 220 78' reach
Tyson 5'10' 218 71' reach
Assuming they are equal in skill heart power speed defense etc (which I think favors Ali almost across the board) then if you know nothing else about them you would expect the taller fighter with reach to jab and control the pace of the fight and the ring and to win the fight.
That was not always true for Tyson but his losses were all to those tall opponents with range.
Ali favored every time
Let's also remember that 3 1/2 years of Ali's best years were robbed from him.
Joe Frazier In his prime was the best of all time.
Born in the 856 wrote:
0bi wrote:Tyson in his prime defeats anyone.
Nope. As I said before, Buster Douglas beat him in his prime. George Foreman and "Smokin'" Joe Frazier would have beat him.
When Buster Douglas beat Tyson, it was definitely NOT in his prime.
You forget that Tyson had major personal issues - death of his adoptive father, divorce, new management who can be argued not the most loyal team, the humiliating interview of previous year (or two) with his soon-to-be-ex, he had just left prison where he had lost considerable weight and had to be put in protective custody (so no real exercising).
That is not a man in his prime.
Every super computer in the world has always spit out as the top 2 Heavyweights as Marciano and Ali. Every Time it has Marciano knocking out Ali. Tyson shouldn't even be considered in this topic, only Marciano.
1964 Ali v 1986 Tyson
Tyson by knockout in first round. Ali trys to float like a butterfly takes a hard body shot then gets caught in the corner with a combination to the head with his arms down. Ali had a chin for the ages but he never had to stand in against Tyson. Liston, Frazier, and Foreman were heavy punchers but Tyson had an absolute cannon and an unmatched ability to get in close where he could use it.
( I'm not sure there is anyone who 1986 Tyson couldn't beat. I'm not saying 1986 Tyson was unbeatable, I'm just saying anyone who stepped into a ring at that time with him was taking a serious risk.)
1966 Ali vs 1988 Tyson. Ali by tko in the eighth. A more cautious Ali survives the first two rounds then wears Tyson down and exposes Tyson's weak chin. Ali staggers Tyson repeatedly and the referee calls the fight.
1974 Ali vs 1997 Tyson. This would have been a great fight assuming Tyson was motivated and did not get the munchies. Tyson knocks Ali down in the 3rd but Ali gets up and goes on to knock Tyson out in the eight a la the Rumble in the Jungle.
Ali is the Greatest for a reason. That said, Tyson brought a still unique ferocity to the ring. Anyone who says one or the other wins 9 out of 10 times is underestimating their talents and boxing in general.
Let me start by saying I was never a fan of Ali. I almost always rooted against him and am old enough to have watched him fight many times.
With that said, Ali would dominate Tyson. Like has been mentioned, Tyson would have only had a shot by landing one big punch. Yes it does happen but Ali could also take one big punch and keep fighting.
The advantage in reach that Ali had would be very, very hard for Tyson to overcome. Tyson basically could only win a fight a few ways by having someone go toe to toe with him or by just scaring the hell out of another fighter. Ali had many strategies that could have led to victory.
Also let's not forget that Tyson came along at a point in time that the heavy weight division was very weak. Once the division started to get stronger with the likes of Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis coming along then Tyson didn't seem nearly as good. And yes I'm aware he spent time in prison.
What you expect wrote:
of whom 1% have been in a fight... ... Let alone anyone who has any understanding of prof boxing.
Less than 1% of fights even resemble boxing. One on one with gloves is as much a fight as one on one with nunchaku.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Neither Foreman nor Frazier fought Ali in his prime. He was Casius Clay in his prime.
Alan
Frazier beat Ali closer to the Cassius Clay days.
Boxing was a shell of itself(particularly Hvy division) by time Tyson came. Pre the mid 80s the heavyweight championship of the world was bigger than the Super Bowl. Ali was King of Kings, even whilst missing ages 26,7,8,9. Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Liston were superior athletes, the strongest of the strong, before football thinned the herd. Mike Tyson was a boxer because he could do nothing else. Foreman , Frazier, Norton all would've walked Tyson. In fact, Foreman was Tyson before Tyson was Tyson, except much bigger and stronger. And, we saw what a worn and old Ali did with that.
There is a clip floating around of Ali dodging shots from a young burgeoning pro boxer. That kid is Mike Dokes, an unbelievable talent with firepower, and eventually did become champ.
Dokes looked like a 10 year old fighting his father.
We never got to see Ali in his prime, we can only piece it together, but the pieces of that man, surely add up to much more than Mike Tyson.
What's next, LeBron better than Jordan?
Perch wrote:
I could see swapping the Norton and Frazier predictions but that is a solid post.
Foreman would have turned Tyson's lights out but that would have been fun, some big bombs thrown in that fight.
I think you're right. After thinking a bit more, Frazier was very good defensively, which isn't how we think of his fights. As long at Tyson didn't get a lucky punch in the first couple of rounds, Frazier wins.
The problem for those younger than 55, they never saw Ali, Foreman, Frazier, and Norton fight. These were among the greatest of all time. Who did Tyson fight that could be considered among the greatest of all time? No one.
Frank Marshall Davis wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:Neither Foreman nor Frazier fought Ali in his prime. He was Casius Clay in his prime.
Alan
Frazier beat Ali closer to the Cassius Clay days.
Not in Ali's prime.
Iconic moments:
Ali---standing over Liston after he knocked him out, brutal fights with Frazier and Norton, stepping back as Foreman toppled face first
Tyson---searching for his mouthpiece when Douglas knocked him down, biting Holy field's ear... twice, "eat his children" rant