400m suggestions for 8th Grade Girl

Sorry I guess this should have been in the training forum, I don't know how to move it.

listen to her coach.

Thanks so much, super helpful

Is she going to do some USATF meets this summer? Or run cross country this fall?

I wouldn't have her do any 400 meter specific training this summer. I would have her work on pure speed by running 30s, 40s, 50s. I'd have her do drills to improve her form, and work on her explosiveness as well. Hill running focusing on form and turnover but not worrying about time will be helpful. Non running activities to improve general fitness should always be undertaken.

Her 200 time seems poor relative to her 100 time. I don't have any girl who runs 13 flat but many that have faster 200 times.

Thank you both, I appreciate the insight!

I'm not familiar with the USATF events, but I'll look into it, thanks! I did suggest cross country in the fall, but the 5k seems daunting to her - she ran in 6th and 7th grade but that was only 2 miles, averaging around 15 minutes. She may be convinced if she thinks it will help her track season :)

I probably have her 100 time wrong...that was a time from last summer and I'm going for memory.., The only other thing I have to go on from this season is her hurdles, best was 9.43 for 55m and 35.54 in 200m. Not super fast.

I don't want to overdo it, just looking for a general idea of how to proceed with her because she's super competitive. The fastest HS time from our district is 1:16 over the last 3 years, so not sure if we are lacking speedy girls? I feel like she could possibly have some talent if it was developed right...

Apache906 wrote:

Thank you both, I appreciate the insight!

The fastest HS time from our district is 1:16 over the last 3 years,.

Cant be right.

Anyway, I'd run XC even if just for the fitness but she'll probably take to it pretty well.

Apache906:

Please do not put her in XC. This will kill her speed. If you want her to run lots, put her in soccer (note: this sport creates tonnes of concussions for females and damaged ACLs) or basketball.

She has the rest of her life to "put in the hard miles".

An earlier poster mentioned having her run short sprints and I agree. More miles is just that more miles. A 400m is 1/4 mile that you must run fast.

400m is a sprint, make no bones about it. You need to develop speed, speed-endurance, and stamina.

Apache906 wrote:

Thanks so much, super helpful

No, listen to her coach.

Encourage her to run XC, get her involved with the school's workout program, and communicate with her coach...but ultimately, listen to her coach :-)

As others have mentioned, the best thing you can do is talk to her HS coach - he will be the one coaching her next year, and he should have a (rough) plan in place for new kids, and whatever she does is going to have to fit into that plan if she wants to get the most out of her season.

Beyond that...

13.0 for the 100m is probably not accurate, as that's FAR better than any of the other marks. Maybe it was 14.0? If it was 13.0, she is not an 800m runner, she is clearly a 100m sprinter.

Workouts of 45-60 minutes in 8th grade: what was she doing during that time, just running mileage? Sort of makes sense, as middle school track tends to lump 400m runners with the distance runners, but that is obviously not the ideal training for a quarter miler. Knowing what she did might effect what she should be doing in the coming year, and could explain why you think she might be more of a mid distance athlete.

It's right. We don't have a great high school team, and our middle school team is no better. She and one other girl are the only ones that have won a running event all season, and our team has been beaten handily at every meet. She is doing well because she is extremely active otherwise, and she has the leg and core strength from riding, I think. And I've been trying to give her some tips, but I'm no expert, and definitely not an expert in sprinting. She has done some gymnastics, and her sister is a high level gymnast, which is where the hyper competitiveness comes from (she wants to be good at something like her sister). We are kind of out in the boonies and the closest youth league is an hour away, so she'll be stuck with her HS coaches. I just think she can be faster so was looking for some general ideas. But I get that she has time, and it makes sense to focus on the sprinting/form as a place to start. For the indoor season, she would be doing that unaffiliated, because our team doesn't do it.

Runfastrunfar wrote:

Apache906:

Please do not put her in XC. This will kill her speed.

Not necessarily. My daughter runs middle school track and cross country, and we live a decent-sized metro area and I've seen most of the MS runners in her meets. There is a girl and a boy who are near the best in town in the 400, and they were also top cross country runners. The girl runs about 66 and the guy has run 58 for the 400. She has also been at or near the top in the 100. I've seen the guy run a leg of the 4 x 200, and in a different meet he did a 5:24 in the 1600. Last fall in cross country they were usually first in district-wide meets in their respective grades. Didn't kill their speed.

Gotcha, I am probably wrong on the 100m then, or either we started her at the wrong start line which is equally possible, LOL.

Yes, she was mostly running with the distance runners for workouts, with the exception of when she was practicing hurdles. They were running some ladders, and also whatever that thing is where everyone jogs in a line and then sprint to the front? She did some sprints, but not a lot, and she was not doing anything like 100m split work or anything. She was basically running with the fastest boys, and she has a faster race time than our top 8th grade boy in the 400. Not too much conditioning, which probably explains some of her advantage, because she's pretty conditioned compared to the other kids.

When I say that I think she might be a mid-distance, it's really because she's not as competitive in the 200m as she is in the 400m. I was thinking that if she was a true sprinter, she'd find that race easier? Or maybe it's because she's not working speed...not sure.

Agree 100% with those who advise communicating with HS coach, and encouraging her to do xc.

From your description I suspect she's a distance runner not a sprinter. Either way, xc is going to help her, not hurt her. Most xc programs are doing a lot of general strength work, hill repeats, and some repeats on the track that will be good for her. Likely as her aerobic strength improves she will find herself competitive at the longer stuff. If she's been winning races with those 400 times, it could easily be that she is just more developed and aerobically fit than other kids.

If you get nothing from the coach: Big thing with girls that age, 400 or distance, is to make sure general strength is in the program. You can look at Jay Johnson's general strength and circuit routines for ideas. For speed I'd do short alactic hill sprints in the summer 1x/week 6-8 x 50m all out, full rest. Then mostly just general aerobic fitness the rest of the summer. Specific track work only if she is competing (which I wouldn't do). If she doesn't like to just go out and run she can do fartlek type workouts 1-2 times a week.

You could put together your own 400m training program in the fall but I'd start with the coach and with xc.

coach registered said:

)I wouldn't have her do any 400 meter specific training this summer. I would have her work on pure speed by running 30s, 40s, 50s. I'd have her do drills to improve her form, and work on her explosiveness as well. Hill running focusing on form and turnover but not worrying about time will be helpful. Non running activities to improve general fitness should always be undertaken.

Her 200 time seems poor relative to her 100 time. I don't have any girl who runs 13 flat but many that have faster 200 times.(

I agree in general.

Athletes of all types need an aerobic base. Sprint training is more like distance running than many think. In the off-season the first thing I would have her do is run 2-6 X 200 @ 80% of her top speed with 30 seconds recovery. She will not be able to do many of these at first. Do not force her to!!! All of this should be fun! (2 X 200 may be enough the first few weeks.

The next day have her jog a mile for recovery.)

Read articles on sprinting. There are tons of them on the internet. If you can, find a successful sprint coach and have her work on relaxation, acceleration, and classical running form. She should have something to work on every time she runs. "The mind makes you run fast"- Dr. Ernie Gregoire, former Olympic Assistant Coach.

Rope skipping, plyometrics, and fast dynamic running drills will also help. But with anything new START EASY. Lots of easy recovery runs are also recommended. Larry Myricks ran 3-5 milers during the off-season and ran 20.03 in the 200 and Long Jumped 28'8". It is a myth to say it takes away your speed. One needs 36-48 hours to recover from hard training (sprint training is hard on the body!).

"So that is the time to do some jogging to recover" - Larry Myricks 3 X Olympian. (In our 8th grader's case, 1-3 miles may be enough for the recovery jog the day after sprint training. It is important!) Bike riding is also good.

Never over do anything! What you learn on LRC is only scratching the surface on what one needs to know about speed.