Is Jim Ryun the Only High School Sub 4 Without a Rabbit or in a Race With Open Competition?

The only sub 4 miles in high school only competition are:

3:58.3 - Ryun, 1965

3:59.53 - Slagowski, 2016

3:59.71 - Verzbicas, 2011

Only Ryun ran sub 4 in high school without rabbits. Watch here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaGDIKoh-g8

wejo wrote:

Here's a list of the sub 4s in high school.

Alan Webb, 3:53.43 (2001) (Pre)

Jim Ryun, 3:55.3 (1965) ????

Drew Hunter, 3:58.25 (2016) (open meet)

Matthew Maton, 3:59.38 (2015) (college meet)

Grant Fisher, 3:59.38 (2015) (pro meet)

Tim Danielson, 3:59.4 (1966) ???

Michael Slagowski, 3:59.53 (2016) rabbit first 700

Lukas Verzbicas, 3:59.71 (2011) pretty sure he had a rabbit

Marty Liquori, 3:59.8 (1967) ??

All the recent ones have been in races with rabbits or open competition. The one's I'm not sure about are the ones from the 1960s. Can someone help me out.

I'm pretty sure Ryun's first one was just at a Kansas meet without a rabbit. Not sure about Danileson and Liquori offhand.

The only sub4 high school mile run in a HS only race is Ryun 3:58.3 at the 1965 Kansas State meet.

All others were aided by open or pro runners, I do not believe I'm wrong on this.

oldold runner wrote:

[quote]

The only sub4 high school mile run in a HS only race is Ryun 3:58.3 at the 1965 Kansas State meet.

All others were aided by open or pro runners, I do not believe I'm wrong on this.

You may not have had the benefit of reading smile's post. smile is correct. Verzbicas and (apparently) Slagowski were high school only, although with rabbits.

A bit more detail on the '60's races:

Ryun's winning 3:55.3 in 1965 was against Peter Snell and other open runners in San Diego (Balboa Stadium).

Danielson's 3:59.4 was a fourth place the following year in the same meet. Jim Grelle was in both races.

Liquori's 3:59.8 was for eighth place in the 1967 AAU meet.

Ryun's teammate is given some credit by Ryun himself at the State meet for hanging on for 880 and encouraging him. As you can see from the above video, he died rather badly yet still got second.

wejo wrote:

Here's a list of the sub 4s in high school.

Alan Webb, 3:53.43 (2001) (Pre)

Jim Ryun, 3:55.3 (1965) ????

Drew Hunter, 3:58.25 (2016) (open meet)

Matthew Maton, 3:59.38 (2015) (college meet)

Grant Fisher, 3:59.38 (2015) (pro meet)

Tim Danielson, 3:59.4 (1966) ???

Michael Slagowski, 3:59.53 (2016) rabbit first 700

Lukas Verzbicas, 3:59.71 (2011) pretty sure he had a rabbit

Marty Liquori, 3:59.8 (1967) ??

I'm pretty sure Ryun's first one was just at a Kansas meet without a rabbit. Not sure about Danileson and Liquori offhand.

Wejo. Ryun sub four at the State Meet was his Senior year. He had already run 4:00 or 3:41 about five or six times during his junior year.

oldold runner wrote:

The only sub4 high school mile run in a HS only race is Ryun 3:58.3 at the 1965 Kansas State meet.

All others were aided by open or pro runners, I do not believe I'm wrong on this.

Believe it.

You're wrong

Here's Ryun beating Snell, Grelle, and Odlozil in San Diego. If you've never watched this race, you should. It's amazing that a high schooler beats the Olympic 1500 Gold and Silver medalists from the year before. And as evidence that the more things change the more they remain the same, Ryun does not get noticed by the TV announcers until over three minutes into the race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-R97LShwA

Luke V definitely did not have a rabbit when he ran sub 4. His race was a highschool only adidas championship meet.

He has a high school boy rabbit for 880y

had*

Sloop John B wrote:

Luke V definitely did not have a rabbit when he ran sub 4. His race was a highschool only adidas championship meet.

You can see for yourself. Announcer mentions "the pacer" right off the bat.

Didn't do a great job; went out too fast and then got in the way before dropping out at 1000m. But a wabbit is a wabbit.

Great vid.

Imagine this board blowing up in reaction to Grelle shoving Ryun right after the finish.

Man, these caveats people keep adding to build up Ryun are getting old. The fact of the matter is multiple high schoolers have run sub 4 in HS only competition. Get the f*ck over it old timers.

Imagine a high school kid from Kansas beating el g and lagat in 3:46. That's essentially analogous to Ryun's 3:55.

u say tomato wrote:

Ryun's winning 3:55.3 in 1965 was against Peter Snell and other open runners in San Diego (Balboa Stadium).*

* this race is what make Ryun the HS mile GOAT. Snell was the reigning Olympic Champion. These board would melt down if a HSer beat the Olympic champion in any distance race. I don't see that ever happening again.

He did have an ok rabbit. I was at this meet and the weather conditions sucked pretty badly. I doubt any of the other sub 4 HSers ran in rain/high winds.

the sands wrote:

Sloop John B wrote:

Luke V definitely did not have a rabbit when he ran sub 4. His race was a highschool only adidas championship meet.

You can see for yourself. Announcer mentions "the pacer" right off the bat.

Didn't do a great job; went out too fast and then got in the way before dropping out at 1000m. But a wabbit is a wabbit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7tlSG-Iz4

You all missed this.....

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/-6976334327312398323/travis-mahoney-goes-under-4-minutes-in-the-mile-at-christian-brothers-academy/

Ryun still HS GOAT wrote:

u say tomato wrote:

Ryun's winning 3:55.3 in 1965 was against Peter Snell and other open runners in San Diego (Balboa Stadium).*

* this race is what make Ryun the HS mile GOAT. Snell was the reigning Olympic Champion. These board would melt down if a HSer beat the Olympic champion in any distance race. I don't see that ever happening again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-R97LShwA

If a highschooler today were to defeat the reigning Olympic Champion, it would be a FAR greater feat than what Ryun managed in 1965.

I don't get why people don't understand that the depth of competition back then sucked. Amateur athletics laws ensured that runners could not actually make a living running, and because of that, the only guys who could continue to train at a high level after HS or college were those who were financially secure enough or had jobs that allowed them to do it.

The reason it's impossible now is because the professional runners are actually paid and can dedicate themselves completely to running. A high schooler in 1965 was competing with adults who had to work full time jobs while trying to fit training into their schedule. A high schooler anytime in the last 2+ decades was competing with adults who spent 100% of their time focused on making themselves better runners.

Ryun's American Junior records from 1966 (800m, 1500m, mile) are all about to turn 50 years old this summer. And not only do they still stand, no one has even come close to any of them.

The times change but clocks don't, so far as I know.

And the Peter Snell of 1965 could step on a track today and be competitive at 800m. Still holds the NZ record. John Walker is #2.