I'm a sprinter and would like to know what stops amazing milers and half-milers from running the 400. For me, it's "hitting the wall" but my speed is great. You don't have to go VERY fast in a 400, so why don't more long distance people do it?
I'm a sprinter and would like to know what stops amazing milers and half-milers from running the 400. For me, it's "hitting the wall" but my speed is great. You don't have to go VERY fast in a 400, so why don't more long distance people do it?
Not Fast Enough
Not going "very fast" for a sprinter is going very very fast for a miler/800 runner. speed reserve. The 400m rig feeling is very unique among the races I think.
Why is it so hard for 400 guys to run the mile? Why do they slow down so much on the last lap? That's when you're supposed to kick dude, but its like they all jog instead of kick.
why is it hard to "run" 400m for milers/800??
Dont they actually run it way more than 400m specialists?
Do you realize that there are about 4x400m in a mile and 2x400m in the 800m?
Because too many milers and 800m runners train like Coe and do too much mileage and not enough strength or speed work like Rudisha.
No wheels. Top end speed simply isn't quick enough. If the race was longer they would pass their competitors. That's why they do the 8 and mile.
formerD1 wrote:
Because too many milers and 800m runners train like Coe and do too much mileage and not enough strength or speed work like Rudisha.
You don't seem to know much about Coe's training.
bobby hobbyjogger wrote:
formerD1 wrote:Because too many milers and 800m runners train like Coe and do too much mileage and not enough strength or speed work like Rudisha.
You don't seem to know much about Coe's training.
+1
If more 800/milers trained like Coe, you'd have a lot more 46-47 second 400m running milers out there
Coe is outdated sorry.
ALL of the top tier 800m runners are former 400m runners and ALL do very very low mileage.
We've had this discussion before on LetsRun.com multiple times.
BTW, Coe's times in the 400/800m would not be competitive today. Times have changed, training has changed, and to achieve elite World Class level 400m/800m times, you really need to train like a sprinter.
Hobby joggers love talking about Coe.
Running has evolved so now you need even more specificity in training to be competitive. Guys like Rudisha arent doubling anymore like Coe used to do because you simply cant get away with it anymore without taking a hit in one or both events.
Hobby jogger doesnt understand thos because he has never been exposed to top end running.
formerD1 wrote:
Coe is outdated sorry.
ALL of the top tier 800m runners are former 400m runners and ALL do very very low mileage.
We've had this discussion before on LetsRun.com multiple times.
BTW, Coe's times in the 400/800m would not be competitive today. Times have changed, training has changed, and to achieve elite World Class level 400m/800m times, you really need to train like a sprinter.
WTF are you talking about? Besides Rudisha, only ONE other current runner (Nijel Amos) has equaled Coe's best 800 time. He damn sure would be competitive today regardless of how his training regimen differs from today's runners.
Wow really? This is what you cant learn from RunnersWorld and Hobby Jogging.
Coe ran his 1:41xx when he was focusing and training exclusively for the 800m.
If Coe was running today there is no way he would attempt to double. Rudisha would smoke him and he likely wouldnt win the 1500m either. Coe would have to go all in on one event just to stand a chance of winning.
And when he was doing both and doubling, his times were in the 1:44xx-1:47xx range. Not competitive at all.
Thanks for confirming the point I was trying to make = need to focus on a single event for best results.
Because they stand up right away out of the blocks.
The funny thing is when Coe doubled at the Moscow Olympics he actually lost the 800m with a 1:44x but won the 1500m.
More evidence that training for the 1500m (e.g., adding some serious distance to your training) completely destroys your speed. Funny enough he came back and trained/ran exclusively 800m/1000m races for half a year and set the WR for the 800m. Then he shifted to the mile for the rest of the year and set a WR at that.
Notably, when he set his PRs, he didn't do a single "double" and focused purely on that one event.
I'd like to see what Coe's 'not competitive' 1:41.73 would have been were it on a nice Mondo track in perfect conditions in London 2012.
When Coe was training as an 800 guy, he would still have been very competitive today. I've read Coe's book and he talks about training with 400 guys just after winter; he trained like any World Class 800m guy today.
There is only 1 man outright faster than Coe today and that is Rudisha. And Rudisha's tactics rely on him being the fittest in the field, which he often has not been in recent years.
If Amos was in the Beijing Final, he would be World Champ right now.
When Coe started training for the 1500m he got down to 3:29 but perhaps could have gone quicker. He was generally very good tactically and I'd put money on him to win some of these sit and kick 1500s these days.
Kiprop is another class. But the other guys? Take Coe from 1985/1986 and put him in Monaco 2015 on that fast track with perfect pacing and conditions, he'd finish 2nd in my opinion. 3:28.5.
Of course, I agree and I also read Coe's book.
I just don't get the Hobby Jogger insinuation that Coe was some kind of "jack of all trades" who was always doing both the 1500m and 800m at the same exact time and doing the same training year-round. Coe was actually much more sophisticated than that AT TIMES (not always), and that was when he ran his individually best times (i.e., when he focused on a single event).
The Coe that everyone seems to want to talk about is the Coe that ran at Moscow and doubling the 800m/1500m at the same competition. THAT Coe would get smoked today running against pure 800m and 1500m specialists like Rudisha or Kiprop.
OK yeah I agree nobody is doubling the 800 1500 these days. Impossible. Coe definitely focused on the 800 then the 1500. He ran both concurrently but you are right, that confuses people now into thinking he ran 1:41 and 3:29 around the same time.
Souleiman gets the closest today to doubling but still too far off.
To medal in both events you'd need 3:28 and 1:42.5 shape.
To WIN both you'd need to be sub 3:27 and sub 1:42 shape and that's just not going to be seen for a while.
Maybe Kiprop could get there but I doubt it.
These days it is about specialising.
As an 800m runner, I have no problem running the 400.