800m sub-4 equivalent?

Actually, to be more clear, what is the equivalent of a 4 minute mile

While 1:48 is probably something pretty equivalent, I think the big psychological barrier mark that denotes excellence is more like 1:45.

sub-1:48

Oh? wrote:

sub-1:48

Or, to be more complete:

1:48 / 4:00 / 8:35 / 13:55? or maybe 13:50...

4:00.00 / 3:43.13 * 1:40.92 = 1:48.55

Its funny how so many people say this or that so quickly when answering this question.

Roger bannister was the first person to break the 4 minute mile and only had a 800m pb of 1.50.7:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bannister

John Landy didn't even have a recorded 800m race worth mentioning.

Albie Thomas who was the 4th or 5th person in the world to break the 4 minute mile. This is disputed but he did break it very close to the date Roger Bannister did it in the same year. He was also the world record holder for the 2mile and 3 mile.

He didnt have a recorded 800m worth mentioning

Herb Elliot

880 yards comm games 1958 1.49.3

There is no equivalent. The mile was prestige. The mile was fame and everyone was fighting for that first chance to break that 4 minute mile target. Most of those initial guys that ran sub 4 minute mile were 1.49 high and 1.50 runners. So if you want an answer its 1.49 high and 1.50. But no body cares as much for the 800m.

History tells us. Calculated conversions dont do this question justice.

Quick back of the envelope

4:00=>3:42 Mile to 1500

Halve 1500 time to approximate 800 time.

1:51

1:47.0

It's been 1:48 since the dawn of time. Of course this means that Rudolph Harbig was a superior runner to Bannister. I wonder if anyone else broke 1:48 between Harbig and Bannister?

It definitely depends on the runner and if they are more speed or strength based. Slagowski has 48.6 400 speed (first leg of 4x4), 1:48.70, and 4:08. He is a good balance of speed and strength in my opinion, but I don't think he will break 4 in HS.

'Herb Elliot

880 yards comm games 1958 1.49.3'

He ran the 2nd lap in 50.5 so not representitive of what he could have run

Go go go go go wrote:

Quick back of the envelope

4:00=>3:42 Mile to 1500

Halve 1500 time to approximate 800 time.

1:51

No.

Multiplying 800 by two for 1500 time assumes a week 800 and/or strong 1500. Doesn't give equal performances. 1:41 x 2 = 3:22, so think a bit. 3:26 / 2 = 1:43.

1:48 is the answer.

Personally I think 1:48.5 is equal to a 4:00 mile. 1:48 flat is a different level, more equivalent to a 3:40 1500m.

Comparing world records, however, gives a factor of ~ 2.21 for equivalent 800m to 1500m performances.

4:00 ÷ 2.21 = 1:48.6.

I believe the mile world record is slightly weak compared to the 1500m world record (makes sense as the latter is run far more often). El G should have run about 3:42.5 based on his 1500m.

This changes the factor and gives an 800m time more like:

4:00 ÷ 2:205 = 1:48.8.

That said the 800m world record could potentially have been a touch faster had Rudisha been fresh.

tldr: 1:48.5

What skews the perception by many is that most people run the 800/mile in high school, where the athletes are comparatively undeveloped aerobically. As a result, 4:00 has seemed like a more formidable challenge than 1:48. That is changing as more runners and their coaches embrace proper mileage in their development.

This phenomenon carries into the sprints. 10.19 is the #10 HS 100m performance all-time, and 45.3 the #10 400m; both are far superior on the world stage than 4:00, which is the #10 mile.

Surely a far more rigorous / less abstract measure is to look at depth.

For instance, in the NCAA indoor lists this year, 4:00.0 equates to 1:48.6. This seems like a good guide, that actually is relevant to achievement and not based on the relative abilities of one individual.

My one caveat is the NCAA context, where milers & 3k/5k guys may post great mile times, whereas only 800 runners and a few milers will post top quality 800 times, which could skew it a few tenths.

1:59.99

Assuming you are not a troll, I'm talking about the ability level/prestige of a 4 minute mile, not what an 800 at 4 minute mile pace would be. Obviously a 4 minute mile could run much quicker than 1:59

Actually 1:59.3

The Portuguese Tables give 3:59.99-- 962 points same as 3:41.5 and 1:47.0

A nice study done in 2000 gives the converters a good base for conversation.

Jonas Mureika Ph.D

Loyola Marymount University

Quantum gravity, black holes, cosmology, particle physics, mathematical modelling

http://myweb.lmu.edu/jmureika/track/mercier/WRAthletics.html