Fair sport: Ben True and Adam Nelson have some very interesting ideas on doping - We share them with you here

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  • LetsRun.com
    your benevolent dictator
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 10:04am CDT
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    Fellow Dartmouth alum Jonathan Gault caught up with True and Nelson over the last few weeks. They have some interesting ideas related to doping.

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/04/scarlet-letter-law-fair-play-fund-look-ben-true-adam-nelsons-ideas-cleaner-sport/

    You've got to feel for Nelson as he was denied Olympic glory by a doper. Plus he said it was infuriating to simply be a thrower as most people just assumed he was dirty.

    True's got a personal moral code that goes way beyond the WADA rules. Here is the quote we are making quote of the day.

    True said:

    "My wife usually drinks beetroot juice, which I know a lot of athletes do leading into a competition and she has taken bisodium carbonate (I think True meant sodium bicarbonate) leading into races, both of which are completely legal and fine. But myself, I would never do that because I feel that that is the gray area. I can’t push that belief onto my wife and other people that I know do the same thing because I know that that is perfectly legal and perfectly fine in WADA’s rules.....â€

    "If your thyroid condition is due to having a suppressed thyroid due to training hard, then that’s baloney. Everybody who trains hard is going to have lower thyroid levels, decreased testosterone, different hormonal imbalances because you’re stressing your body during training. That’s a slippery slope because you can look at a whole variety of other problems. I think taking medication to artificially balance those levels is cheating."
  • whatanidiot
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 10:46am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    So...isn't eating more food or specific foods also artificially balancing levels in your body?
  • Mob rule
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 10:49am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    True admits that his wife is a "gray area" triathlete, therefore he MUST be in the gray area himself. Better than a scarlet letter, perhaps we should go Sharia on dopers and stone them? Maybe we should force their gray are spouses to wear burkas? Or since True is big on the horrors of 17th century justice, witch trials and burnings should be employed?

    The currant system works. Like our justice system, our doping rules give a second chance.

    As for me, I'm hoping that True becomes on of the anomalies and fails a drug test that cannot be explained. He sleeps in the same bed as a doper, but she's "technically" "not really" violating the letter of the law, just the spirit of the law.
  • FLOWERBLOSSOM
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 10:58am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Beetroot juice only works for untrained people. So it has no effect.

    Sodium bicarbonate likely has no effect at all as well, especially on triathlon.

    He's on the slippery slope fallacy.

    although I do like the general idea behind True's thoughts.

    What about the F-ing alter-g he was running on? How is that not an advantage that he is using that other people aren't?

    It's not that the sport is "fair" or we are on a level playing field, that would require everyone to train the same and never get good, only have access to the same stuff. It's that we agree to the same rules.
  • counting54321
    registered
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:01am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Nothing wrong with acidophilus to optimize your gut bacteria though, right Ben?

    The more outspoken against doping this guy becomes, the more I think he might actually be doping.

    The blue-collar, trains alone, "doesn't even drink beet juice" nonsense makes no difference. No one thought Floyd Landis could dope. But the Amish kid was on everything he could get his hands on.

    Paula Radcliffe: "Just a cup of strong tea and some scones."

    http://new.paularadcliffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/08-300x200.jpg
  • brogan1
    registered
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:16am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    The reason PEDs are banned is because athletes should not be expected to take dangerous substances in order to stay competitive. What does True think is dangerous about beetroot juice and sodium bicarbonate? When I google most results are titled, "Amazing health benefits of...".
  • JumboSam
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:19am CDT
    re: Counting54321
    Forum Index
    Counting54321 wrote:

    Nothing wrong with acidophilus to optimize your gut bacteria though, right Ben?

    The more outspoken against doping this guy becomes, the more I think he might actually be doping.

    The blue-collar, trains alone, "doesn't even drink beet juice" nonsense makes no difference. No one thought Floyd Landis could dope. But the Amish kid was on everything he could get his hands on.

    Paula Radcliffe: "Just a cup of strong tea and some scones."

    http://new.paularadcliffe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/08-300x200.jpg

    I didn't think he was doping till this. This is the classic moral diversion. Beet juice grey area , but beets are OK ? I'm thinking micro dosing, because True is fixated on "grey" areas.
  • hmmmmmmmm
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:20am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Sounds like something a doper would say
  • jjjjjjj
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:24am CDT
    re: Mob rule
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    That makes zero sense. No one's talking about stoning. And the current system has completely failed. Only under pressure from Hajo Seppelt and legal authorities has there been any attempt at all to rein in the dopers and doping countries, and I predict this comes to nothing, just as the Meldonium lists have become large numbers with almost no actual names attached to them, just like they announced something like 28 doping positives before World's and then we only ever heard a handful of names at most. Good for True to live up to his name. Eat a good diet but don't start searching the medical journals for substances that provide a substantial advantage over a normal diet. Training on an alter-g is like going to the gym--so special advantage among world elites.
  • True believer
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:24am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Wow, all the dopers come creeping out of their holes to bash True. Is it tough to see an ethically and morally coherent athlete who is much faster than you despite all the crap you stuff yourselves with?
  • bigtool05
    registered
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:30am CDT
    re: brogan1
    Forum Index
    brogan1 wrote:

    The reason PEDs are banned is because athletes should not be expected to take dangerous substances in order to stay competitive. What does True think is dangerous about beetroot juice and sodium bicarbonate? When I google most results are titled, "Amazing health benefits of...".

    This. Does he really thing beetroot juice is "gray area"? Lost a little respect for the guy's intelligence with that
  • Kingseeker Frampt
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:36am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    This line of reasoning is part of why I won't wear calf compression sleeves.
  • jewbacca
    registered
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:40am CDT
    re: Mob rule
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    Mob rule wrote:


    The currant system works.

    Never really liked currant. Beet juice is pretty nasty too.
  • WGAF?
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:42am CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    PAIN KiLLERS are legal so WGAF?
  • joho
    registered
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 11:47am CDT
    re: bigtool05
    Forum Index
    bigtool05 wrote:

    brogan1 wrote:

    The reason PEDs are banned is because athletes should not be expected to take dangerous substances in order to stay competitive. What does True think is dangerous about beetroot juice and sodium bicarbonate? When I google most results are titled, "Amazing health benefits of...".

    This. Does he really thing beetroot juice is "gray area"? Lost a little respect for the guy's intelligence with that




    I think he is saying taking beetroot before a race to improve performance is gray area in his book. As he said, he does not push that on anyone else, including his wife, but is his own personal belief that he lives and trains by.

    Why lose respect for that?
  • Trolling for dollars
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 12:14pm CDT
    re: joho
    Forum Index
    joho wrote:

    bigtool05 wrote:

    brogan1 wrote:

    The reason PEDs are banned is because athletes should not be expected to take dangerous substances in order to stay competitive. What does True think is dangerous about beetroot juice and sodium bicarbonate? When I google most results are titled, "Amazing health benefits of...".

    This. Does he really thing beetroot juice is "gray area"? Lost a little respect for the guy's intelligence with that




    I think he is saying taking beetroot before a race to improve performance is gray area in his book. As he said, he does not push that on anyone else, including his wife, but is his own personal belief that he lives and trains by.

    Why lose respect for that?


    Because it's stupid...
  • Prettybad
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 12:14pm CDT
    re: FLOWERBLOSSOM
    Forum Index
    FLOWERBLOSSOM wrote:

    Beetroot juice only works for untrained people. So it has no effect.

    Sodium bicarbonate likely has no effect at all as well, especially on triathlon.

    He's on the slippery slope fallacy.

    although I do like the general idea behind True's thoughts.

    What about the F-ing alter-g he was running on? How is that not an advantage that he is using that other people aren't?

    It's not that the sport is "fair" or we are on a level playing field, that would require everyone to train the same and never get good, only have access to the same stuff. It's that we agree to the same rules.


    Why do people keep going on about the alter-g? It's just a tool. If that's an advantage, than the perfect running trails (and perfect running climate) of East Africa is also a huge advantage. Perhaps, to be fair, all elites should live and train in the same location. I say let's ship everyone to Colorado.
  • Yup yup
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 12:15pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    I think he needs to broaden his view. This moral code seems directed at runners like Hall, Goucher,and Rupp. They all took thyroid medications. Although most people seems to just focus that on Rupp.
    I understand the view but I am not sure that thyroid meds or the beet juice stuff is what gets you a big advantage. The athletes who are subject to much less doping oversight have a big advantage. And the athletes with access to the best training resources (all legal) - masseuses, alter-gas, altitude training, equipment, etc, - have a big advantage.
    Nelson got robbed by a doper. True could be running against runners who are doping. They could be from the U.S. but also, morocco, Kenya,Ethiopia. Most of those runners could be clean but hthere is a weak testing system.
  • Mike Macintosh
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 12:26pm CDT
    re: Yup yup
    Forum Index
    Yup yup wrote:
    The athletes who are subject to much less doping oversight have a big advantage.

    That is only true if you are doping. If you are not doping then it makes absolutely no difference if you tested every day or not at all.

    I have never been drug tested in my life - does that give me a competitive advantage over athletes who have been?
  • levo xyl
    3 years ago 04/11/2016 12:31pm CDT
    re: Yup yup
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    I have taken synthetic thyroid over half my life...since I was 17. No wonder I am so god damned fast now!