Can someone tell us why Akela Jones was allowed to do HJ on day 2 after abandoning the pentathlon 800 on day 1?

Are you saying that you don't think Jones gave an honest effort in the Pentathlon?

NCAA rules allow athletes to abort a multi event and still do their other events.

fan of the sport wrote:

NCAA rules allow athletes to abort a multi event and still do their other events.

That's interesting because it's not the case at Worlds. I remember last year Katarina Johnson-Thompson jogged the 800 in the heptathlon to make sure she could compete in the long jump later in the meet.

LetsRun.com wrote:

ARTICLE 8. An athlete failing to attempt a start or make a trial in any event

of a combined-event competition shall be considered to have abandoned the

combined-event competition and shall not be allowed to participate in any

following event of the combined-event competition. The competitor shall be

listed in the final results as Did Not Finish (DNF) with no total points recorded.

Not an expert, but the text of the NCAA rule on scoring in a multi suggests that as long as you start an individual event, you will not get a DNF for the entire competition. In other words, it sounds like you only get a DNF if you fail to start one of the events.

fan of the sport wrote:

NCAA rules allow athletes to abort a multi event and still do their other events.

Where do you see this? I think it applies with regard to the failure to participate rule, but I don't think it exempts them from honest effort.

NCAA rule 3-19-3 says

"Should the decision be made to withdraw from or abandon an

event, the competitor shall be scratched from any subsequent event(s) in the

meet"

Doesn't make a provision for a multi-event.

First of all, Akela Jones was on track for a MONSTER score in the Pentathlon. I don't know if that was even reported. She tripped on the hurdles, I believe, which totally dropped her points. She is a phenom.

I asked my multi expert/D1 coach your question and he said, in a text, "Honest effort rule. In the pentathlon starting the 800 is enough at that point."

(I didn't ask him your other questions because he's too busy coaching.)

It's always been my opinion that the honest effort rule (and the intentional pacing rules) should be abolished. Both of those rules just make running unnecessarily complicated by trying to draw a fine line that can't be drawn. If an athlete wants to jog or drop out of an 800, who cares so long as she isn't holding up the meet or impeding any other competitors?

Whether the NCAA would like to admit it or not, the essence of running is knowing when to expend energy to produce the best results. When team points are involved this makes running more interesting in my mind because it adds another layer of strategy. To see an athlete disqualified for conserving effort as they should is ridiculous.

So to answer question 3, it is already abused every single meet on par with the racewalking "to the naked eye" one-foot rule. Better to get rid of it so it doesn't provide an avenue for a corrupt official to disqualify a team on a technicality.

Jonathan Gault wrote:

NCAA rule 3-19-3 says

"Should the decision be made to withdraw from or abandon an

event, the competitor shall be scratched from any subsequent event(s) in the

meet"

Doesn't make a provision for a multi-event.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/TF16.pdf

Don't know how this rule is enforced, but for the multi generally I've always understood that if you start the event, you're good to go on to the next event. For example, I've seen guys nursing an injury in the decathlon and decide to quit the first day but want to throw the disc the second day. So they'll start the 400m that day and then the hurdles the next day and in both will just jog a bit and then step off the track. Then they're good to start the disc and will withdraw after the disc. They get zero points for the 400 and hurdles, but their total will still be shown.

Maybe that's now not allowed under honest effort rule.

Seems like she produced a result in the pentathlon - placed 14th after getting 0 points in the 800.

If you don't line up in a race or if you drop out, you don't get credited with a result. You get DNS or DNF

The pentathlon result was not a DNF. It was 14th place.

Do you want her to be DQed?

I think overall it was a pretty honest effort to do well in the pentathlon.

If someone enters the 800 and the mile and just doesn't show up for the mile, they shouldn't be allowed to run the 800. That's not an honest effort and it takes a spot from someone who would have run.

I know people like hard set rules but I think it should be subjective an err on the side of the letting the athlete compete.

Never figured out why people always want to try and take opportunities away from athletes.

Here is the rule:

Rule 4 - The Meet

Section 2 - The Competitors

Failure to Participate

Article 2 - under part B there is a note - it says "A Combined Event, such as the Decathlon, is on event. Failure to participate, affecting other events in the meet, occurs only if the competitor fails to start the first event within a combined-event competition"

So - as long as you start the first event - you have met the Failure to participate rule and if you DNF the Multi - can still compete in other events.

Its page 48 of the rulebook.

Probably to do with the officials at the ncaa meet not being small time, small minded powermad clowns without the ability to use common sense

NCAA Rule Book wrote:

Here is the rule:

Rule 4 - The Meet

Section 2 - The Competitors

Failure to Participate

Article 2 - under part B there is a note - it says "A Combined Event, such as the Decathlon, is on event. Failure to participate, affecting other events in the meet, occurs only if the competitor fails to start the first event within a combined-event competition"

So - as long as you start the first event - you have met the Failure to participate rule and if you DNF the Multi - can still compete in other events.

Its page 48 of the rulebook.

Failure to Participate is different from Honest Effort. I think Honest Effort is the one she would have to be more worried about.

I think what actually happened -- Jones being able to DNF the pentathlon 800 and compete in the individual high jump -- is perfectly fine and common sense says the results be allowed to stand. I just wasn't sure what the rulebook said.

As a multis coach, I'll echo what was said above. It is considered participating and an honest effort if you begin the event.

In a multi, if you fail to start any given event within the multi, you cannot continue on to the next event.

As stated above as well, just starting the first event of the multi allows you to do other (non multi) events that come after.

For clarity, as an example: You have an athlete, he is signed up for the decathlon as well as the open 800 a day after the decathlon. He starts the 100m but fails to finish it (pulls his hamstring, or just pretends to, doesn't matter). So he then doesn't do the LJ at all. In this example, he would not be allowed to continue the decathlon. But he would be allowed to run the open 800.

Now for another example: You have an athlete signed up for the Decathlon only. But he really only wants to do the pole vault (for whatever reason). In that case, you could start the 100 and drop out immediately. Then jog through the board once into the sand in the lj (getting a scratch recorded), half effort throw the shotput and step onto the toe board (to get a scratch recorded) etc. for every event all the way until pole vault, and still be allowed to do the pole vault.

It's a reason why the sport is so bad.

Moaning about non stories like this.

Akela (and her coach) did two things that were very smart...

1) Abided by the 'Honest Effort' rule

2) By starting the 800, she protected her HJ and LJ marks for official results. Had she not started the 800, those marks would not be official.

trollism wrote:

It's a reason why the sport is so bad.

Moaning about non stories like this.

Yes correct. See my post above

trollism wrote:

It's a reason why the sport is so bad.

Moaning about non stories like this.

I never moaned about the story. I was asking a simple question as to what the rule is. I am glad she wasn't DQd but just assumed she would be.

Star wrote:

Do you want her to be DQed?

I think overall it was a pretty honest effort to do well in the pentathlon.

If someone enters the 800 and the mile and just doesn't show up for the mile, they shouldn't be allowed to run the 800. That's not an honest effort and it takes a spot from someone who would have run.

I know people like hard set rules but I think it should be subjective an err on the side of the letting the athlete compete.

No. I don' t want her DQd. Your explanation makes more sense and I'd never thought of it that way. She made an 'honest effort' to score big in the decathlon. Realized it wasn't going to happen so focused on the other stuff.

I guess one could use that logic as well to someone dropping out a 10k where they'd been dropped. They made an honest effort to score but dropped out when it was obvious they weren't and focused on the 5k.

I think it's practically hard to enforce honest effort rules and would say abolish them except for the fact I dont want people signing up for stuff they don't really intend to go all out for as it takes spots away from others.

I don't think the effort was dishonest at all...

But at that point, why not just run the damn 800?