Kiprop v Farah in Rio?

In the paris 5k in 2012(which some say its probably the best 5k race ever ) several athletes went under 12 50 and Mo beat them all in London one month later , so yes he did beat the best 5k runners in the world , whether you like it or not

Metric Miler wrote:

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It is just a bit stupid (and blind) to look at the man who dominates the 5k and

Farah has shown he can win in fast or slow races. If they go off fast then Kiprop has no chance. If it's slow then Farah makes his move early enough to subdue Kiprop and stay ahead of the other runners also.

You do make a good point that is easy to forget. Mo hasn't run sub 12:50 or 7:30 or 26:40 ... But he HAS won races sub 12:55 and 26:50. So he can win fast races.

The difference though is he wasn't the one who made those fast races. He sat behind others then finished fast. But he hasn't ever pushed a hard pace himself. That requires a lot more energy, but also a very different mindset. And we haven't seen that from Mo at all.

Maybe his PRs would be a lot lower if he wasn't carry all that gold bling around his neck?thats gotta slow anyone down, right? :)

tony the tiger wrote:

In the paris 5k in 2012(which some say its probably the best 5k race ever ) several athletes went under 12 50 and Mo beat them all in London one month later , so yes he did beat the best 5k runners in the world , whether you like it or not

No, those runners can lose 20 seconds in a month so that's not true. They have a pattern of being very inconsistent. Unless Farah beat them in the same sub-12:50 race, he didn't beat a bunch of sub 12:50 runners.... whether you like it or not

tony the tiger wrote:

In the paris 5k in 2012(which some say its probably the best 5k race ever ) several athletes went under 12 50 and Mo beat them all in London one month later , so yes he did beat the best 5k runners in the world , whether you like it or not

Fuc* you, mite.

ododk wrote:

tony the tiger wrote:

In the paris 5k in 2012(which some say its probably the best 5k race ever ) several athletes went under 12 50 and Mo beat them all in London one month later , so yes he did beat the best 5k runners in the world , whether you like it or not

No, those runners can lose 20 seconds in a month so that's not true. They have a pattern of being very inconsistent. Unless Farah beat them in the same sub-12:50 race, he didn't beat a bunch of sub 12:50 runners.... whether you like it or not

This is such a petty and almost embarrassing myth that seems to be perpetuated here. I have never, ever, come across this apparent loss of fitness leading into major competitions by professional athletes unless they get injured, or lose to Mo Farah.

Please look at the all time top 20 for 5000m, Farah has beaten many of those guys. Including Gebremeskel who is 5th all time, and also Gebrhiwet, Koech and Alamirew who are 7th, 8th and 10th respectively.

It is fair discussion to say that the likes of Bekele, Gebrselassie, Komen and maybe El G would give Mo Farah a very hard time in their peaks. If Farah had been around during the late 90s and early 2000's then he would not be the multiple champion he is today. But to claim that the runners he regularly beats are better than him is baseless rubbish. And to claim they are weak because they aren't running world records is also stupid; especially when so many of them fill up the all time lists in 5k and 10k.

Farah is quality, like it or not. Sometimes in sport you get characters that are brilliant at what they do, but don't do well with the media or get the fans on their side. That doesn't take away from their achievements or capabilities.

This is true, Farah does appear to be unable or unwilling to push the pace in most races. I used to think this was because he couldn't but after the 2 mile world best he ran solo I think it is more because he doesn't want or need to.

He doesn't gain much by winning a diamond league in say 12:45. All he does is show the competition what his absolute top ability is. For all these guys know, Farah could be in WR shape, so it isn't worth running a hard championship final for fear of losing out on silver also. This way they better play into his hands in the big finals. Then again, he may just find it difficult to run from the front, not everyone can. Think Amos.

Athletics is strongly a mental game also.

Farah doesn't make the races slow, he is one man in a field of 10+. The other runners choose to make it slow. Farah runs just fast enough to win, which at the end of the day is the game. You see runners in shorter events easing down once the win is secured all the time (Bolt, anyone?). Winning and medals is what matters really.

I strongly believe if in Rio the other guys take it out in sub 12:50 pace then Farah would set a new PB to win; just keep holding on in 2nd/3rd then kick hard in the last 100m to take the victory.

I also think this would be true in a DL. Farah hates to lose. So if anyone wants to see what Farah can really run in a 5k then they need to get on at the other guys to make another Paris 2012!

ododk wrote

No, those runners can lose 20 seconds in a month so that's not true. They have a pattern of being very inconsistent. Unless Farah beat them in the same sub-12:50 race, he didn't beat a bunch of sub 12:50 runners.... whether you like it or not

This is the all All-time top 25 in the men's 5k :

5. 12:46.81 Dejen Gebremeskel (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

7. 12:47.53 Hagos Gebrhiwet (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

8. 12:48.64 Isaiah Kiplangat Koech (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

10. 12:48.77 Yenew Alamirew (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

12. 12:49.04 Thomas Pkemei Longosiwa (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

14. 12:49.50 John Kipkoech (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

How can you say Mo Farah didn't beat Sub 12.50 runners? you can hate Mo Farah all you want but facts r facts , you lot always complain when Ventollin says Mo's true values are not 12 53 n 26.46 , well these dudes actually ran sub 12 50 but you wanna dismiss as a fluke because of your hate 4 Mo .. you mother fu ckers can't have both ways

Apparently Mo said if he had been in the Paris 12 race he would have won , I really wish he had just to silence Letsrun haters

tony the tiger wrote:

This is the all All-time top 25 in the men's 5k :

5. 12:46.81 Dejen Gebremeskel (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

7. 12:47.53 Hagos Gebrhiwet (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

8. 12:48.64 Isaiah Kiplangat Koech (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

10. 12:48.77 Yenew Alamirew (ETH) Paris 6 July 2012

12. 12:49.04 Thomas Pkemei Longosiwa (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

14. 12:49.50 John Kipkoech (KEN) Paris 6 July 2012

How can you say Mo Farah didn't beat Sub 12.50 runners? you can hate Mo Farah all you want but facts r facts , you lot always complain when Ventollin says Mo's true values are not 12 53 n 26.46 , well these dudes actually ran sub 12 50 but you wanna dismiss as a fluke because of your hate 4 Mo .. you mother fu ckers can't have both ways

Because they didn't run sub 12:50 in the race when Farah beat them. These guys are not consistent enough to assume they are always in sub 12:50 shape.

ododk wrote:

tony the tiger wrote:

In the paris 5k in 2012(which some say its probably the best 5k race ever ) several athletes went under 12 50 and Mo beat them all in London one month later , so yes he did beat the best 5k runners in the world , whether you like it or not

No, those runners can lose 20 seconds in a month so that's not true. They have a pattern of being very inconsistent. Unless Farah beat them in the same sub-12:50 race, he didn't beat a bunch of sub 12:50 runners.... whether you like it or not

i'm pretty sure the next step is you denying that the Paris 12 ever took place , so here is the video lol

No, it's not petty or embarrassing. You just don't know what you're talking about.

You're making up things I never said:

I didn't say Farah wasn't quality

I didn't say they were weak because they weren't running world records

I didn't claim the runners he regularly beats are better than him

You are arguing against things that I never said.

If you've never come across this loss of fitness in professional athletes then you have not been paying attention. These current guys show up and run fast times then sometimes struggle to break 13:20 or 27:20. This is not a myth. It happens frequently.

That's why you can't just assume that he is beating 12:50 guys. Their fitness is so inconsistent and fluctuates greatly in just a matter of weeks. It's like saying he beat a 26:17 guy when he won the 2012 Olympic medal in the 10k.

tony the tiger wrote:

Apparently Mo said if he had been in the Paris 12 race he would have won , I really wish he had just to silence Letsrun haters

He may have won. If you think that's a given, you're as stupid as the people you're criticizing. That was a hot race. Gebremeskel's close was awesome. Watch Komen/Geb from 97 and see how they closed on a race that was marginally faster.

And while Mo did beat Dejen in London 6 weeks later, that was purely because Mo ran a better race tactically; it wasn't simply because Mo was faster or fitter. Had Gebremeskel run a smarter race, I think he'd have won, or come extremely close to it. But he didn't. And Mo didn't run Paris 2012, either.

hmmmmm ... don't ya think 8:03 is world's away from 12:45? 8:03 is Craig Mottram. Mottram was a very good . but he'd have had inParis 2012 he'd have come in (with a PR) 13th or something.

I think you're also understating the importance of PRs, WRs and great times. Every runner I know of wanted to lower their PR. And Mo's are very good, some of them amazing, but his 5000m and 10 000m are below par for what he's capable of. And I can't imagine that doesn't get at him on some level.

There's a reason he ran that 8:03, for example. He didn't enter the race because it was a meet that particularly mattered to him.

I think it would make a 5000m super interesting, assuming all the top guys are in shape, to have someone like Kiprop in it. Mo would have to change his tactics .. and he'd have a very fine line to play with .. if the pace is too slow, Kiprop would have to be favored to win. But if Mo pushes the pace, he's giving a huge advantage to the top 5000m guys tucked in behind him.

FWIW, I agree completely on the myth about a dozen guys miraculously losing their 10 Ten of All Time form in a few weeks. That's nonsense.

'These guys' are professional athletes, they know what they are doing and know a hell of a lot more than you. They have world class coaches and their entire lives revolve around peaking for major championships. You know nothing.

The only time someone like Alamirew struggles to break 13:20 is after a couple KMs at 3:00 pace. And that has nothing to do with his maximal capability.

The one that really makes me laugh that I have heard around here is about Kjelcha. According to some posters, he was in sub 13 shape leading into Beijing, lost 1 minute of form whilst there to become a 13:50 runner, and then regained his form shortly after the competition to run 12:53. Haha!

Guess it just doesn't fit the narrative that Farah is a 12:57/58 runner benefiting from racing a bunch of 13:20 guys, seeing as Kjelcha came 4th!

wtfunny wrote:

.. Mottram was a very good . but he'd have had inParis 2012 he'd have come in (with a PR) 13th or something. ....

" .. he'd have had his clock cleaned in Paris 2012 ..."

I should never post from my phone again.

8:03 indoors is pretty good, I was talking more about the way he ran solo for a lot of the race, I can't think of another example of him doing that.

If I'm honest, I reckon his lack of running fast 5ks and 10ks is down to Salazar's plan. Maybe it does eat at Farah, I have heard him talk about running fast before retiring, but he will not attempt anything in years with important championships.

I think Farah vs Kiprop in the 5k would be uneventful really, much like the 5k Kiprop recently lost. There are a whole host of other runners that are far more of a threat. They will immediately make the pace fair, maybe 13:10-20 if Kiprop was present. I don't think Kiprop would play on Farah's mind too much, but maybe the rest of the field might worry. But still most of these guys back themselves over 5k whatever the pace. In a loaded field I see Kiprop finishing 7th/8th tbh. 5000 metres really takes the sting out of your kick, especially as a 1500m type, even if it's a very slow race.

wtfunny wrote:

FWIW, I agree completely on the myth about a dozen guys miraculously losing their 10 Ten of All Time form in a few weeks. That's nonsense.

There is nothing miraculous about it. They've been doing it for the past 4 years. It's not a myth. It's not nonsense. It's reality. Injuries and mis timed peaks happen very often to runners.

Furthermore, the problem here is your math skill. A dozen guys could not be in top 10 of all time shape form. 12 is greater than 10. That is actual nonsense.

ododk wrote:

wtfunny wrote:

FWIW, I agree completely on the myth about a dozen guys miraculously losing their 10 Ten of All Time form in a few weeks. That's nonsense.

There is nothing miraculous about it. They've been doing it for the past 4 years. It's not a myth. It's not nonsense. It's reality. Injuries and mis timed peaks happen very often to runners.

Furthermore, the problem here is your math skill. A dozen guys could not be in top 10 of all time shape form. 12 is greater than 10. That is actual nonsense.

1/2 dozen, sorry.

Sure, injuries happen. But this drastic drop off in fitness idea is without substance. See the post above about Kejelcha.

Wtfunny wrote:

1/2 dozen, sorry.

Sure, injuries happen. But this drastic drop off in fitness idea is without substance. See the post above about Kejelcha.

No, it's not. Kejelcha is one guy. Him maintaining form does not mean that the rest of them did. Injuries and other causes of fitness loss are not without substance. It happens.