Just curious what the thought on this one is. I think yes, but it would have been close. Rupp's closing speed is too good and I don't think Hall would have been able to get rid of him early.
Just curious what the thought on this one is. I think yes, but it would have been close. Rupp's closing speed is too good and I don't think Hall would have been able to get rid of him early.
This is a good question. However, I myself vote Hall, and without equivocation. Hall was at his absolute best that day - Rupp in his first marathon wouldn't have stood a chance; don't forget, Rupp has run a few half marathons now and hasn't really come close to Ryan's time, and Ryan is probably more of a natural marathoner than Rupp.
Hall > Rupp
as
Jesus > Satan
no chance. What did Hall close the 2nd half in? 61 or 62 minutes? come on.
I'm not sure there is a person alive who could have beaten Ryan Hall in the 08 trials. At least not in this country. It was the most dominate performance on the roads I have ever seen. He obliterated the field.
Rupp may have looked like he was jogging the first 21-22 miles but Hall in the last mile looked like he hadn't even started running. To this day I've never seen anything like it.
It was a performance for the ages.
Sloop John B wrote:
Just curious what the thought on this one is. I think yes, but it would have been close. Rupp's closing speed is too good and I don't think Hall would have been able to get rid of him early.
This is a good question and I am leaning towards Rupp based on his pedigree and late surge. It's really difficult to compare the Central Park performance to 2016 because it wasn't in warm, direct sunlight. Both were exceptional performances and in both cases they did all that was asked of them.
it's too bad that 2008 Olympic Trials Marathon can't be found online anywhere in it's entirety, or at least I haven't been able to... anyone else have luck finding it?
AliboRunner wrote:
I'm not sure there is a person alive who could have beaten Ryan Hall in the 08 trials. At least not in this country. It was the most dominate performance on the roads I have ever seen. He obliterated the field.
Rupp may have looked like he was jogging the first 21-22 miles but Hall in the last mile looked like he hadn't even started running. To this day I've never seen anything like it.
It was a performance for the ages.
That was Hall at his peak and he wasn't close to being pushed at the trials. He then ran a 2:06 in London the next spring where he had some serious competition. Rupp has not yet shown he is at that level.
I'll add that 2016 Rupp might be closer to 2008 Hall in hot conditions like LA. Hall was never quite as good in the heat as his 2:12:13 in Beijing showed, but that was also with 2 other fast marathons in his legs from the previous year.
If you go back to the threads at the time, there was discussion as to whether Hall could have beaten Martin Lel in the NYC Marathon the following day and it was entirely plausible that Hall might have done so. This at a time when Lel was widely considered the best marathoner in the world. Not to take anything away from Rupp's performance, but Hall's was incredible.
The way that Rupp ran that 61:20 1/2 marathon in December, it's hard not to picture him breaking Hall's 59:43 in a real race with competition. It might not even be a stretch to think that Rupp could break 59:00 on a perfect day. I'd probably take Rupp over Farah in a 1/2 as well.
Link wrote:
This is a good question. However, I myself vote Hall, and without equivocation. Hall was at his absolute best that day - Rupp in his first marathon wouldn't have stood a chance; don't forget, Rupp has run a few half marathons now and hasn't really come close to Ryan's time, and Ryan is probably more of a natural marathoner than Rupp.
Rupp's HR would have been well above 150 trying to hang on to Ryan's coat tails
Hall was incredibly fit that day and if he was pushed, no doubt he would have ran at least a minute faster. If memory serves, was that the race where Hall playfully flapped his arms In the home stretch for the spectators?
localboy wrote:
it's too bad that 2008 Olympic Trials Marathon can't be found online anywhere in it's entirety, or at least I haven't been able to... anyone else have luck finding it?
Bump for this.
I would even pay flotrack for it.
Link wrote:
This is a good question. However, I myself vote Hall, and without equivocation. Hall was at his absolute best that day - Rupp in his first marathon wouldn't have stood a chance; don't forget, Rupp has run a few half marathons now and hasn't really come close to Ryan's time, and Ryan is probably more of a natural marathoner than Rupp.
Good point, it would have been interesting to see Rupp 2016 in the 2008 race. 2016 vs. 2008 played out much differently with the leaders taking it out hard in 08, different weather conditions, etc. Even under those circumstances, I still choose Rupp. Again it would have been darn close. I think Rupp would have been able to sit on Hall's front running (even though Hall was unreal at the time) to conserve energy and kick at the end.
My best guess is that it would have played out similar to 2003 NCAA cross. Rupp wouldn't have been able to run away from Hall, but he would have been able to outkick him at the line.
Sloop John B wrote:
Just curious what the thought on this one is. I think yes, but it would have been close. Rupp's closing speed is too good and I don't think Hall would have been able to get rid of him early.
In one corner you have Ryan Hall bringing the power of God to the race.
In the other corner you have Rupp with the powerer or Satan (Salazar).
I am betting on Satan.
Sloop John,
Please. Ryan Hall was a World Class marathoner at that point. Rupp was/is a neophyte. Rupp not fit to carry RyGuy's jock at this point when it comes to the marathon.
wiiiiwlllwlwl wrote:
AliboRunner wrote:I'm not sure there is a person alive who could have beaten Ryan Hall in the 08 trials. At least not in this country. It was the most dominate performance on the roads I have ever seen. He obliterated the field.
Rupp may have looked like he was jogging the first 21-22 miles but Hall in the last mile looked like he hadn't even started running. To this day I've never seen anything like it.
It was a performance for the ages.
That was Hall at his peak and he wasn't close to being pushed at the trials. He then ran a 2:06 in London the next spring where he had some serious competition. Rupp has not yet shown he is at that level.
I'll add that 2016 Rupp might be closer to 2008 Hall in hot conditions like LA. Hall was never quite as good in the heat as his 2:12:13 in Beijing showed, but that was also with 2 other fast marathons in his legs from the previous year.
During the 2008 trials Hall hasn't shown he was a 2:06 guy either:) In general people always look fresher at the end of cool marathons than hot ones so I wouldn't read too much into that. By the end of the summer we will know what Rupp looks like in a competitive marathon. As it is right now it is all speculation. Maybe we will luck out and have some what decent weather (yeah it is probably going to be hotter than ideal but something like low 70s finish is a possiblity).
But given the way Hall took the marathon over the next couple, it is very tempting to give him the edge. Unless of course Rupp drops a 2:05 in Rio:)
I'll just echo what's already been said...cannot add much more to the conversation.
That race was one of Hall's best, and no one was beating him that day.
Sloop John B wrote:
Just curious what the thought on this one is. I think yes, but it would have been close. Rupp's closing speed is too good and I don't think Hall would have been able to get rid of him early.
It's a good question, because watching Rupp on those miles 20-26 really reminded me of Halls amazing run. Rupp looked so within himself and was pushing 4:4x miles like they were a tempo run at the time where almost everyone else was blowing up or hanging on in the heat.
A couple thoughts. Not easy to compare apples when one is run in cool weather and the other is uncomfortably warm or marathon hot. I think in 08 folks started with beanies, gloves and arm bands didn't they?
I'm not sure how much Hall peaked for his race, but Rupp clearly didn't with his plan to run 3000 indoors in 4 weeks.
It is a very interesting question. Rupp's 2:11 on a flat course on a very hot day is probably right in line with Hall's 2:09 on a very hilly Central Park course with pretty ideal conditions (a bit windy, but perfect temps). I would give Hall the advantage simply because he had already raced a marathon. But it would have come down to the wire.
It is also fun to think back to that race because Jared Ward is basically Brian Sell 2.0. Total blue collar runner who scratched and clawed his way onto an Olympic team.