How to get my coach to change his training program?

Just to clarify, I run mostly the 2-mile and this training program is based on that

Ok, no one has responded. Usually these threads will attract a ton of the very common:

"My coach is even worse!"

"We run 10 miles a week!"

"We do 20 mile repeats....I've got a hundred miles this week and it's Tuesday!!"

Etc, etc. Etc........

I have chimed in before with the same advice I will give here. Usually the OP as well as the entire peanut gallery get's pretty offended. However, the advice is rock solid and no one has ever actually posted a rebuttal, so here goes (yet again):

First, you brought this on yourself.

Wait, what? This joker makes the schedule without my input! How am I to blame?

This guy was not 'your coach' until you decided he was. You are the one that agreed to be coached by this clown, who incidentally does know less than you do about this stuff.

I know the next thought:

The school district hired him and I live in the district. Well, when I was in HS I ran. I ran a lot. I was doing up to twice your mileage. I rarely did speedwork and if so, often did longer (2 min +) intervals.

I train smarter now. The mistakes I made were not enough fast running. I was basically traing for a 20 mi or 30k type of race although I primarily raced 10k. If I could go back I'd do more race-pace work.

Here's where the story gets good (and this has really pissed off some MB regulars including Track Coach). I never met my HS track coach. Heard he was worthless, though. I believe he was an assistant football coach who needed a Spring semester gig.

Ok, your thinking, how could I run without being involved with the coach? Easy (well, actually, it's hard if you do it right). Just go out and train. And race. Don't tell the school about it. Better yet, do tell them just in case they thought every distance runner in the school district bought into their program. This last bit is optional and really just intended to offend them.

The school's coach does not have authority over everyone under 18 in the district who wants to run, jusst those that go out of their way to voluntarily join the team. So here's how you do it:

Some day like maybe the second day of the semester or mmaybe first Friday, there will be tables set up in the gym. Maybe the lunchroom. These have signs saying Soccer. Track. Volleyball. Etc. Don't apprach the track table. Better yet, don't go into the gym on that day. Bingo, this idiot is suddeny not 'your coach'!

Then what do you do? Train. Do the exact mix of speed, tempo, hills, whatever that you respond to best. Remember, you are actually a better coach. Then you race! You get to pick the distance and frequency of racing. Perfect!

Now, I realize that you will not take this advice. Somehow running seems meanbngless without the school, team, and coach, right? Frequent poster Track Coach thinks so, and he's middle-aged like I am. One problem with that attitude is that you can't run past the age of 23. Another is that you have to obey some football coach.

Maybe someone will read thgis and be inpired to run school-less. Until then, good luck with the 200s!

Well, I wouldn't call this a rebuttal but depending on where you live your plan is flawed.

If he wants to run against competition on the track with kids his age in most states he can not run unattached. In the state I coach in the only options open to a kid that does not run for there school in track are not competitive within their age group. He can run road races and some non-competitive track races through the Junior Olympics but that isn't the same.

Yes, he can run and compete without his school, team, or coach but he wouldn't be able to run in the same meets. Meaningless no, but it's an isolated approach that just doesn't do it for a kid that wants to compete against their peers. It might be hard for someone to understand this who is not involved.

Hey otter,

Like I said I've posted this kind of thing before and never got a response other than "FU, POS!" And this kind of thing.

So, this is the first actual explanation of the fact that no kids these even consider competitive running sans school sanction.

Well, it used to be common but you may be a tad younger than I and may not have experienced what I did. My friends and training partners (they went to the same school; that's how I knew them) ran road races. A lot of teenagers did, so it was not just a matter of finishing to win our age division (as it often is now). I won our AG at times and it took a 10k around 34 if it was small-time locals-only but an established race that brought the heavies (but still just local amateurs) out it seems like it took a minute, maybe 2 faster.

I remember a marathon in which I got close to 2:50 (tried to go under, but...) and that didn't get me on the podium, but just like 5th or something in the AG. In fact, it wasn't enough for girls our age either, as at least one of them was ahead of me. Now, that wasn't my best distance, but here's the point: this was no Boston (Peachtree, Falmouth, etc) but just a popular regional race attracting absolutely no one on the cover of T&FN.

Well, we all know this is not the deal now. Did a single HS male do a 2:45 marathon last year? Half well under 1:20? 10k? No 32+change I'd bet. Don't bother scrambling to look this up; I concede there could be 3, maybe 4 guys across the country. But these races aren't nearly as competitive as before (under 30 to win open men in a bush-league locals 10k circa 1980) and absolutely a joke 18 and under.

But for our young friend, this is good. He could win his division easily and enjoy the awards and recognition but not get too big of a head since you're inevitably behind a few guys in their 20s and 30s. Would this be a bad thing? If you're a born distance guy (90% slow-twich, let's say) winning your AG and maybe a top ten overall is better for a youngster's confidence than getting last place in 800 and whatever 'the team' forces you to run.

None of this applies if you sprint, jump, or throw. The school provides your only option to compete. My buddies and I always asked each other retorically, "What would we do if we ran something shorter?", knowing road races wouldn't be an option for anything under 10k. Even if you run mid-d this would be the case. However, I suspect OP is more slow twich than a natural 1500 type. At least I assumed as much reading the post.

Well, that's it from me. It's an option. If you believe you can succeed at real distance events, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least considering what I suggest.

Just cruise the assigned training then do Iadditional miles on your own. You improve and he doesn't have to change .

Road racing definitely is an option but it's not for everyone. I raced in high school in the 80's and did my fair share of road racing between seasons. We were not allowed by league rules to race during the season. It was fun and yes the competition was much greater back then. I hear people say that the competition is more spread out now due to the number of road races out there but I remember it being very different. The sub-elites were stacked and I had a very good day if I could get in then top 10 overall. 5 miles was a popular race and if you were not sub 25 you were not going to win. So much for the advancement of our sport. It has only happened at the top end.

Now I coach in a nearby state. The top kids who are currently running around 4:12 for the mile and one under 15 for 5000 do not run any road races other than out of season for workouts. This is fairly consistent for all of the top kids in our state and states around us. Once the season is done they are looking toward the next one. They don't run road races like I used to between seasons. Maybe it's the cost, maybe something else. I don't know, I just know they aren't there. So if you want to face your competition you have to run for your team at least in New England that's true.

So road racing is an option. It's just not for everyone.

For the kid:

When I was in high school I loved my coaches and respected them but I did not feel they were giving me enough so I went out running on my own at times and sometimes with friends. We used to bang out 14 mile runs on Sundays. We would pick a different park to run in every weekend. I don't think I ever told my coach about it and somehow even at that age I never got over my head with a race approaching. I didn't want to be slow in any race so I held back the day or two before. I don't understand why kids can't extend things a little. Does your coach really have you on that tight of a leash? 15 minutes longer for a run each day could mean an easy 2 miles or in your case 50+ miles for the week. Add the long run on the weekend and now your over 60 and we all get along again.

I know as a coach if I tell the kids go out for 50 minutes they come back in 45-48. I put GPS watches on them and some of those miles are 9+. Most of the team is trying to cheat down. I love the kids but this is what they do. If a kid came back and told me they got a long run in on a Sunday I would be pumped. So, your coach doesn't approve. So what. It's not your obligation to tell him just like you don't need to tell him every time you sabotage your running by eating junk food etc. Don't tell me you don't either. You all do. Do you tell your parents absolutely everything you do when you are out with your friends or on a date?

My advice is to just get out there especially early season and get some extra miles in. Be smart about it though. As an example don't punish yourself the day before a race or hard workout.

After workouts do a cooldown of a few miles actually running as opposed to the rest of your team slogging away doing a couple of laps at 11 minute pace.

I coach a track team that has a different coach for xc. They like to complain about how little the coach has them do over the summer. My daughter was on their team. I had the schedule he wrote up on my fridge during the summer. It was perfect for them but NONE of them did the training he prescribed and ALL of them failed during the season. They complain about I'm and I role my eyes. In the end who is at fault? Whether your coach is clueless or not (I'm not sold) you can take responsibility for yourself. So do it and if you want to compete for your school stay on the team. Again, I Ioved my coaches. The training was not perfect for me so I made some adjustments. 20-30 minutes extra per day was not enough for me to make a federal case to them.

I remember I thought my coach was an idiot. Blew him off despite 10 years prior coached a gal to a national record. Found is off season training he gave me and it was genius.

Wish I would bought in. I would have been better for it.

Auntie Coach wrote:

Well, that's it from me. It's an option. If you believe you can succeed at real distance events, you're doing yourself a disservice by not at least considering what I suggest.

I'll definitely consider this. In a perfect world this would be a great option, but I don't know if I see myself enjoying running without my friends and without a team as much as I even enjoy not running to my full potential on a team, but I'll definitely think about running on my own.

To Otter:

what about my workouts? Should I keep going with the short workouts but just increase my mileage with them? You're right about being able to do that, but is there any way I can work with my coach to try to get him to change?

To Shoulda Woulda Coulda:

I don't think my coach is an idiot or a bad coach, but his training plan isn't working for me, or for a decent amount of other runners. I'd like as much as possible to work with my coach, because I also want the rest of my team to be able to benefit from whatever ends up happening

Also, thanks for the advice to everyone who replied, it all helps

What year are you?

The chances are you are not benefiting because you are racing the workouts.

" I run mostly the 2-mile and this training program is based on that"

Even if some day you are going to be a marathoner, you NEED to run the 800 and 1600 as well as the 3200 in HS. As someone who ran 36 consecutive meets, over 3 years, only running the 3200s in HS, I know this is true.

Endurance problems wrote:

To Otter:

what about my workouts? Should I keep going with the short workouts but just increase my mileage with them? You're right about being able to do that, but is there any way I can work with my coach to try to get him to change?

This all depends on your coach. I'm not sure how big his ego is? How did he respond to your request for more mileage? Was he annoyed and put off or did he respond positively to it? If you have only one thing to bargain at with him that is better than your entire program.

When you do your long run on the weekend every other week bring it down to 10-12 miles and throw in the last four miles at a tempo pace. Add striders to your routine after each run. Throw some pickups in there on the other alternating weekend.

If you want your coach to change it could be all in your approach. You'll fair better no matter what if he is the creator of your workouts. If he is easily offended then you could ask him if he has other workouts that have worked well in the past that the team can try. If he says yes you will not be running 200's for that workout and he will be the one that came up with it so the control will still be in his hands. Don't wait until workout day to ask or he will be put off.

If he is not offended ask him about shortening the rest on your 200's. Same workout he has just a different look to it.

Why not just say "Hey coach, I was on a running message board and found a few training plans. I wanted to learn a bit more about the thought process behind coaching and was curious what you thought the positives and negatives are for each of these?" Give him a week or so and then see if he has any answers for you. By doing this you've:

1) Avoided making him butt-hurt

2) Showed that you have an interest in running and training and that you're willing to learn (from him)

3) Made him think he's an authority figure with some special knowledge

I'm a senior. You're right about the workouts, I definitely need to pay attention to when I'm running them too fast, and I've been working on that for the past few months.

And when I said I run mostly the 3200, I just meant that's my main focus. I run the 800 and 1600 about as often as I run the 3200 though.

This makes a lot of sense. I'll talk to him before we start outdoor and see if he has any specific plans for the season's workouts and go from there. I'll also work on the long runs on weekends and see if I can build up a bit more endurance on my own. Thanks a lot.

When I talk to him I'll definitely try to add some input into the workouts he's planning. I think a major part will also be him sticking to the workouts planned and not just going with what he's used to.

Endurance problems wrote:

On my high school team, my coach doesn't really emphasize endurance at all. We do 200 repeats almost every week and almost never do tempos, and my mileage is by far the highest among the distance guys but it's only around 40 miles a week (which I've had to convince my coach to let me do). This works fine for some people, but it also leads to a decent amount of injuries and burn-out.

Something is seriously wrong with your teammates if they are getting injured and burnt out off of weekly 200s and less than 40 mpw. That sounds like the easiest training ever. If they can't handle that, why do you think they could handle 70 mpw or a bunch of tempo runs???