Is there any truth to appearance fees for first timers and vets? No way a first time marathoner gets a big debut appearance fee. If anything a first timer should get less. And how much $$$ of an appearance fee? Is it only Travel, hotel, food? Do they get any $$$$?
Marathon appearance fees can't be much otherwise every US distance guy would be making a marathon appearance to get some extra $$.
Marathon Appearance Fee Myth
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Appearance feel wrote:
Is there any truth to appearance fees for first timers and vets? No way a first time marathoner gets a big debut appearance fee. If anything a first timer should get less. And how much $$$ of an appearance fee? Is it only Travel, hotel, food? Do they get any $$$$?
Marathon appearance fees can't be much otherwise every US distance guy would be making a marathon appearance to get some extra $$.
In chatting with some folks involved with the Chicago marathon years ago, the appearance money is a line item budget. The RD tries to maximize that. I could see a first timer getting some decent appearance money if that person has a following or credentials. For instance, an Olympic medalist from the 10 might get some money for his/her marathon debut.
I also think that there is an understanding that the runner will also compete in the marathon. A RD does not want to spend appearance fee money on a 5K guy (or gal) and then have them drop out of the marathon early. Plus who other than Meb and Rupp would really warrant getting an appearance fee on the guy's side?
Lastly, I question the return on investment for appearance fees. I cannot see how they increase participation--I think few runners in the race know who these folks are anyway. Does it increase media attention for the sponsor? I cannot see it helping an already major marathon. Maybe a smaller marathon. -
luv2run wrote:
Appearance feel wrote:
Is there any truth to appearance fees for first timers and vets? No way a first time marathoner gets a big debut appearance fee. If anything a first timer should get less. And how much $$$ of an appearance fee? Is it only Travel, hotel, food? Do they get any $$$$?
Marathon appearance fees can't be much otherwise every US distance guy would be making a marathon appearance to get some extra $$.
In chatting with some folks involved with the Chicago marathon years ago, the appearance money is a line item budget. The RD tries to maximize that. I could see a first timer getting some decent appearance money if that person has a following or credentials. For instance, an Olympic medalist from the 10 might get some money for his/her marathon debut.
I also think that there is an understanding that the runner will also compete in the marathon. A RD does not want to spend appearance fee money on a 5K guy (or gal) and then have them drop out of the marathon early. Plus who other than Meb and Rupp would really warrant getting an appearance fee on the guy's side?
Lastly, I question the return on investment for appearance fees. I cannot see how they increase participation--I think few runners in the race know who these folks are anyway. Does it increase media attention for the sponsor? I cannot see it helping an already major marathon. Maybe a smaller marathon.
How much money is an appearance fee? I can't see race directors spending thousands for a first timer. -
Appearance Feel wrote:
luv2run wrote:
Appearance feel wrote:
Is there any truth to appearance fees for first timers and vets? No way a first time marathoner gets a big debut appearance fee. If anything a first timer should get less. And how much $$$ of an appearance fee? Is it only Travel, hotel, food? Do they get any $$$$?
Marathon appearance fees can't be much otherwise every US distance guy would be making a marathon appearance to get some extra $$.
In chatting with some folks involved with the Chicago marathon years ago, the appearance money is a line item budget. The RD tries to maximize that. I could see a first timer getting some decent appearance money if that person has a following or credentials. For instance, an Olympic medalist from the 10 might get some money for his/her marathon debut.
I also think that there is an understanding that the runner will also compete in the marathon. A RD does not want to spend appearance fee money on a 5K guy (or gal) and then have them drop out of the marathon early. Plus who other than Meb and Rupp would really warrant getting an appearance fee on the guy's side?
Lastly, I question the return on investment for appearance fees. I cannot see how they increase participation--I think few runners in the race know who these folks are anyway. Does it increase media attention for the sponsor? I cannot see it helping an already major marathon. Maybe a smaller marathon.
How much money is an appearance fee? I can't see race directors spending thousands for a first timer.
any actual examples? Has anybody ever published their amount? -
They are significant. Some elites will make more money off of that first marathon than any race in their career.
For example, one of our top US 5k/10k guys at the time earned $250,000 to race his first marathon. When Galen runs his first marathon (assuming it's not the trials) he'll make $300-$400k. It would be financially irresponsible for a guy like Chris Derrick to open up at the trials unless he is certain he'll make the team. -
It really depends on the athlete and the race. Your basic 28:00 10,000 guy making a marathon debut will get something, maybe just a first class refundable plane ticket which can be cashed in, hotel, and food. Maybe a bit more but as you said, not all that much. But a high profile track guy, think Farah at London or Rupp if he runs at Chicago or New York in the fall, will get six figures comfortably.
The highest specific figure I ever heard for a marathoner was $100,000 in the late 70s for a race that was not a marathon. That's probably at least $300,000 in current money and would have been a lot more had the race been a marathon. -
I may have posted this before on another thread, but I think it might be wise of these races/race directors to publicize the amount of their appearance fee to the public. The reason why I think this could be good, would be due to the fact that the general public would now see so-and-so runner receiving $XX,XXX amount and then create more interest in that professional runner(s). Boston does the John Hancock Elite thing, but most of the participants have no idea that they are receiving money just to start the race. If people knew these runners where given an appearance fee to race, this could generate more popularity and value to these professional marathoners. It seems pretty simple to me...There's too much hush-hush in our sport, and if more things were public, then the public would be interested. Just look at Baseball and Football and the publicly known amount those professionals make.
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I have run several marathons and have never, I mean never, collected an appearance fee. I may explore this option for future races.
Thanks for the input, please keep us posted. -
I'm guessing a lot of athletes would be less willing to come to races if appearance fees were made public. If RDs disclosed what the fees were they might need to up them a bit. Just a hunch.
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This is either a 5/10 troll job or this thread needs to be exported to Runner's World.
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The amount of marathon appearance fees are not public. But there are plenty of new stories reporting payment of substantial appearance fees:
From ESPN in 2013:
All of the major marathons attract top talent with appearance fees, which range from a couple of thousand for a 2:15 runner to hundreds of thousands for international stars like Haile Gebrselassie or the late Sammy Wanjiru. But the fees are confidential and vary widely, both from runner to runner and race to race. London, for example, seems to have a bigger appearance-fee budget than Boston and has paid upward of $250,000 for the biggest names. So has New York.
Several years ago, I was told of a top American being offered $150,000 to race Chicago.
http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/9156850/endurance-sports-how-much-does-winning-major-marathon-pay
From the Washington Post in 2005:
And so Ethiopian distance legend Haile Gebrselassie was scheduled to receive an appearance fee of about $400,000 to run in London before he dropped out with an injury, his Dutch-based agent, Jos Hermens, said. Radcliffe will likely receive approximately $500,000 to run today's race, several industry sources said. Olympic medalists can expect an appearance fee of around $200,000 to run in the highest paying marathons, Chicago Marathon Executive Race Director Carey Pinkowski said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59283-2005Apr16.html
I expect like most of track and field, the top few runners get a lot and it drops off sharply from there, but that's just a guess. For example, I expect Rupp would will get a big appearance fee for his 1st marathon, but that if you are like Chris Derrick who is less well known and without an Olympic medal, you would get paid a lot less. Even so, I'm surprised Derrick would run his first marathon (at the trials) and maybe second marathon(at the Olympics) where he won't get paid an appearance fee. He could probably get some kind of appearance fee in the fall from New York or Chicago on top of what he could make running track this year.
It's unfortunate that the amounts aren't made public because I think it would stimulate interest, just like public reports of big salaries stimulate interest in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. Requiring disclosure might be something USATF or the IAAF should work on. There are too many members of the public who still think running is like the Olympics in the 1970s and is an "amateur" sport that you don't get paid for. -
As far as debut appearance fees, that only happens for big names, but it is very real.
A lot of money in marathons and they want to be the one who does the next big thing.
Looking at Rupp, he has a real chance of winning a debut. Plus many guys stick with the marathon they debuted at. So imagine the money NY would offer Rupp if they thought 1) he can win and 2) he will run the next 3 NYC marathons. -
Has no one mentioned Farah getting paid to run the half marathon and marathon? I think it was NYC and maybe may have even paid him around $1 million.
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HRE wrote:
I'm guessing a lot of athletes would be less willing to come to races if appearance fees were made public. If RDs disclosed what the fees were they might need to up them a bit. Just a hunch.
Very good point from an athlete/pro perspective. And looking at it as a joe blow runner who enters ( lets say the NYC marathon,) I might be a little upset that nearly tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars are being spent on one athlete and I have to pay $250 for an entry.
But, for us nerdy runners on this board, I would love to know exactly how much these pros are getting... I guess it's non of my concern. -
Farah got paid at least $500k to run the first half of the London Marathon. It was absurd.
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There's no way pros are getting 6 figures to run a race. That's more than prize money for most races.
How much is prize money for most races? There's no way they pay more in appearance fees than prize money. How big are budgets for these races?
I bet these guys are getting airfare and hotel. No way 6 figures. -
6 figures bud. 6 figures.
And yes it is dumb, but it is more important to these guy s to get paid than to win a race. It is backwards. -
Appearance Feel wrote:
There's no way pros are getting 6 figures to run a race. That's more than prize money for most races.
How much is prize money for most races? There's no way they pay more in appearance fees than prize money. How big are budgets for these races?
I bet these guys are getting airfare and hotel. No way 6 figures.
Why wouldn't appearance fees be more than prize money? By what logic is that not possible? Big races get media attention and credibility by bringing in big names. I posted links to stories reporting appearance fees of $250,000+. -
Appearance Feel wrote:
There's no way pros are getting 6 figures to run a race. That's more than prize money for most races.
How much is prize money for most races? There's no way they pay more in appearance fees than prize money. How big are budgets for these races?
I bet these guys are getting airfare and hotel. No way 6 figures.
I'm not sure you're being serious, but to make this point clear for all:
Everyone here remembers the 2013 Great North Run. Mo Farah, Bekele and Gebreselassie in the men's, and Priscah Jeptoo, Tirunesh Dibaba, Meseret Defar in the women's. First prize was £500.
Appearance fees exist to make sure major names participate and garner exposure for the event in question. They're not public because they're inherently unfair. A Kenyan woman with a marathon best of 2:22 won't get paid near the likes of Mara Yamauchi or Flanagan because the latter two will draw far more eyes from journalists and regular watchers alike. -
Because a marathon is a spectacle. London paid MoF shitloads to get his butt on the starting line. Britons recognize their favorite adopted Somalian and want to see him win it all. The marathon is the only thing that matters anyways.
