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Clarke ran 13:16.6 at Stockholm in 1966 and I'm quite sure it was still a cinder track then. Of course, Clarke's 37:39.4 from 1965 was also on ciders, at Oslo.
It's a mistake to call cinder tracks "dirt," which implies that they're little better than cow paths through a field somewhere. A good cinder track was very good indeed. The problem was that they required lots of care and handling. They got chopped up by multiple races and were wet, heavy, and even muddy after rains. There can be little question that today's all-weather tracks are worth a minimum of a half second--and many would say a full second--per lap over these older surfaces.
Clarke was far greater than most today realize.
Duh...of course, I meant Clarke's 27:39.4.....
Was Ron Clarke the greatest runner to never win a gold Medal?
Henry Rono
good answer. also,
jim ryun
george young
dave bedford
steve cram
grete waitz
ingrid kristensen
Pardon my stupidity but what exactly is a cinder track composed of?
Are they actual cinders or is that just common usage for some other substance?
I run from time to time on a dirt track that is resurfaced with graded gravel every year. I used to think it was slow because I lost time due to "scuff" factor. A few weeks ago I ran on it in spikes for the first time and it felt great- very fast and comfortable.
but remember, Cram did manage to win a WC gold medal, not quite as prestigous as an Olympic one, but he did beat out Steve Scott who was then near his peak to win it....
a cinder track is made of..cinder. As in cinder block
World 5000M progression. Geb and Clarke tied at 4WR's a piece. Geb gets the tie breaker as he takes the old record down by over 19secs versus Clarkes 17+secs.
WORLD RECORDS
12' 37" 35. Kenenisa Bekele, ETH, 31 May 2004, Hengelo
12' 39" 36. Haile Gebreselasie, ETH, 13 Jun 1998, Helsinki
12' 39" 74. Daniel Komen, KEN, 22 Aug 1997, Brussels
12' 41" 86. Haile Gebreselasie, ETH, 13 Aug 1997, Zurich
12' 44" 39. Haile Gebrselassie, ETH, 16 Aug 1995, Zurich
12' 55" 30. Moses Kiptanui, KEN, 06 Jun 1995, Rome
12' 56" 96. Haile Gebrselassie, ETH 04 Jun 1994, Hengelo
12' 58" 39. Said Aouita, MOR, 22 Jul 1987, Rome
13' 00" 40. Said Aouita, MOR, 27 Jul 1985, Oslo
13' 00" 41. David Moorcroft, GBR, 07 Jul 1982, Oslo
13' 06" 20. Henry Rono, KEN, 13 Sep 1981, Knarvik
13' 08" 4+ Henry Rono, KEN, 08 Apr 1978, Berkeley
13' 12" 86. Dick Quax, NZL, 05 Jul 1977, Stockholm
13' 13" 0+ Emil Puttemans, BEL, 20 Sep 1972, Brussels
13' 16" 4+ Lasse Viren, FIN, 14 Sep 1972, Helsinki
13' 16" 6+ Ron Clarke, AUS, 05 Jul 1966, Stockholm
13' 24" 2+ Kipchoge Keino, KEN, 30 Nov 1965, Auckland
13' 25" 8+ Ron Clarke, AUS, 04 Jun 1965, Compton
13' 33" 6+ Ron Clarke, AUS, 01 Feb 1965, Auckland
13' 34" 8+ Ron Clarke, AUS, 16 Jan 1965, Hobart
randy newman wrote:
good answer. also,
jim ryun
george young
dave bedford
steve cram
grete waitz
ingrid kristensen
]
I'd like to add Paul Tergat to the list.
Its slag from a coal furnace -- residue which will no longer burn.
rick wrote:
Pardon my stupidity but what exactly is a cinder track composed of?
By HENRY F. SCHULTE.
Athletic Coach, University of Nebraska.
Temperature, rainfall and soil bed are important factors in the construction of a track. Since these vary greatly in different sections of the country, it is obvious that what may be the most desirable method in one locality would not prove suitable to others. So any article bearing on this subject must of necessity point out general principles only and the application of these should be on the basis of local conditions. In order to get the latest and most practical ideas on track building and track care, a questionnaire was sent to fifty-odd track coaches, and this article is a compilation of the ideas and suggestions received.
THE RUNNING TRACK.
It appears to be generally accepted that a well-constructed running track should be put down in three layers or strata:
1. A coarse layer (about one-third), consisting of coarse rubble, stone or clinkers. This should be leveled and heavily rolled.
2. A middle layer (one-third or more) of straight-run cinders of rather coarse grade, but without heavy clinkers. This must be well rolled.
3. The top dressing (about one-third front-end cinders seem to have the edge on recommendations), a finely screened cinder mixed with clay, black loam or coal ashes.
TOP DRESSING.
Each coach seemed to have his own particular depth, screen ot proportion for the top dressing.
1. Front or head-end cinders have the preference.
2. These cinders to be run through a screen variously recommended at from 1/4-inch to 1/12-inch mesh, with the preference nearer 3/4-inch.
3-a. The screened cinders to be thoroughly mixed with a binder, clay and black loam seeming to rank about even as the best for this. The selection of a binder should depend upon local conditions of weather, as well as peculiarities of soil. Too much soil robs the surface of resiliency, too little allows it to pack or roll. Experimentation only can solve the problem for any particular locality.
b. The mixture recommended ranged from three-fifths of cinders to one of clay or loam, with a 4-to-1 proportion having the preponderance of votes.
c. Several coaches recommended the use of coal ashes as a binder.
4-a. The cinders and clay or loam in proper proportions, some say, should he mixed in a concrete mixer. Others advise that the top dressing of screened cinders he spread out on the track and leveled, and then the proportionate amount of clay raked in. The raking-in method is open to question, however, because of the impossibility of securing an even mixture.
b. One coach advises that, since it is easier to add clay or loam than it is to eliminate it from the top dressing, it is better to use a minimum amount of binder than the maximum. He argues that it is entirely practicable to rake into the top inch a little film of powdered clay or loam if it is needed to make the surface just right.
THE ROUGH FILL.
Several variations were offered as a bottom stratum. Crushed stone had the preference. Several, however, questioned whether straight coarse cinders would not serve the purpose better. One or two coaches stated a definite preference for that material, pointing out that the object of the rough fill was to provide a porous base that would hasten drainage, and cinders would serve the purpose more effectively than would stone, gravel or brickbats. This part of the track should be leveled and well rolled before the intermediate stratum is put down.
In depth the rough fill was variously estimated at from three to ten inches. Local conditions. of course, will determine its quantity or use. In the track laid down by the University of Nebraska it is entirely eliminated. Since the bed of the track is almost pure sand and very permeable, it was decided that a rough fill of stone would he unnecessary.
Upon the advice of architects, the only rough fill made was straight locomotive cinders, with the coarser ones worked to the bottom. The track has eighteen inches of cinders on a sand bed. The top dressing of front-end cinders averages about four inches in depth. In putting in the main fill of cinders care should be taken to rake to the bottom the rougher clinkers.
THE MIDDLE STRATUM.
This layer, universally it seems, is made of medium size to relatively fine cinders. After this fill is made it should be leveled and well rolled in preparation for the top dressing. The depth of this fill was variously estimated at from five to sixteen inches.
The necessary depth of the total fill depends upon several factors. A track built in and on a non-porous soil doubtlessly should be deeper than one on a porous base. Some coaches insist upon a fill of thirty to thirty-six inches, while others suggest half that depth. It is probably true that a deep track will have a longer life than a shallow track, and will be livelier also.>>
myself also
too much free time wrote:
I'd like to add Paul Tergat to the list.
Gunder Hagg. Hal Davis if you count sprinters. Corny Warmderdam if you take field events.
How are you counting that? 13:34.8 -> 13:16.6 = 18.2 secs.
And if you call it 19 secs for Gebrselassie then you need to count the seconds from where the record was BEFORE 1965 when Clarke broke it. Advantage Clarke.