15x200m 800m race predictions

It depends entirely on the rest between reps.

Rest was 1-1:30 Min.

Oof. That's a fair amount of rest.

Others will have more specific predictions, but I'd think you're about at that 2:15 shape, and maybe a little faster.

It depends, in part, on whether you were running them as semi-sprints (which could be possible for some, with that much rest) or with a true 800-type stride. We can't know that, either way. How did they feel?

They felt easy until the 12th one. I was going semi-hard

Not really a speed session. You may be able to run close to 2:10 though.

I ran that session with a 200 jogback in 2:30 (snow-I cleared 200m of the track) and ran 2:08 for my opener a few weeks later. I was quite good aerobiclally with a PR of 2:07.

shoot for 2:10 if you have good endurance (4:45 shape)

You think I can do that on an indoor track?

My guess is maybe 2:08?

I always thought 15x200m is a waste of a workout. It burns out your legs with only marginal increases in speed, and is not the best way of increasing speed endurance or strength either.

What workouts would you recommend?

Take this with a grain of salt, since I ran the 800m something around 10 years ago and training methods may have changed.

Basically, as an 800m runner, every workout should be focused on one of 3 things:

1) Speed endurance

2) Strength (speed)

3) Biomechanics

The 15x200m is kind of a mix between 1 and 2, a "jack of all trades, but master of none" in essence. The problem with the 200m is that unless you just completely cut-off your rest, you're not running long enough to adequately push your speed endurance. And the 200m is too long to develop top-end speed. The 200m distance is however excellent for 1500m and 5k runners, who don't need to develop top-end speed nearly as much as 800m runners do.

Strength (#2) is where you need to develop your 400m speed. You need raw 400m speed to succeed at the 800m. Training like a 1500m runner and running the 800m requires far greater effort, and is less effective. Training like a 400m runner, and then developing your "speed endurance" to basically "hang on" at the end, is what the 800m is all about. So basically, lots of short speed training with LOTS of rest. Think maybe 15x100m or 15x150m. Each one at nearly full speed, but also full rest (walking or stretching, no jogging allowed).

A pure speed endurance (#1) workout would need to be longer than 200m and with less rest. So something like 10x300m with 45 seconds rest. Don't really need to do too many 400m or anything longer than that for a 800m runner.

My old 800m pr was 2:17 but that was last year. I joined the xc team which def will help. Did a similar workout but it was8x200m with 100m jog as rest (idk the rest time). Each was done at about 27-31. My goal 800m time this year will be 2:08-2:05. I dont main the 800 but more the 1600/3000

I must say I disagree. I have found 15-20 x 200m with a minute rest to be a great session for the winter. If you perform this session at around 1500m pace then it keeps you in touch with your race form, performing each rep with a focus on good biomechanics rather than slogging out a cross country session or something. Coe used to do something similar with 45s rest all in around 28/29 when he could run 3:45 for the 1500m.

In the winter I do two or three sessions a week. These are usually a 200m rep session as you have described, an endurance session of 5-6 x 1km and then a short hills session of 10 reps up a steep hill (around a 35s effort).

It is difficult to say what you can run for the 800m for this 200m session though. It isn't really a 'predictor' session.

Nothing wrong with 10-15x200 as an early season workout. You should be able to hit these at race pace with 1:30 rest, or even with 1:00 if your aerobic base is good. So I'll give you a 2:08-2:10 based on what you've provided.

I agree with the poster above that as you get into a racing period (which you seem to be, asking for predictions), you want to think mainly of speed, speed endurance and 'lactate tolerance' (not a physiologically correct term, but 800 runners know what we mean here).

Speed:

100s, 150s, at 95-99% speed. Rest is adequate to run at/near top speed with solid form, hard but not labored. You're not going for a 100 PR every time here, but something like the first 100 of a 400 race is good, and faster.

Speed endurance:

2x 100/200/300 or 200/200/200 (or similar) at 400 pace. 2:00-3:00 rest is fine if you need it. Lots of options. You are piling on a nice volume of running at a fast pace under not-fresh conditions, and you can only do so much of this in one bout before you explode. So 5:00 between sets, or enough to feel "reset" but not fully rested. (Don't hold yourself to short rest, hold yourself to the prescribed pace. You should be able to finish these at 400 pace, not 800 pace, but it should be hard to do so. The end of the set should feel like finishing a 400: you should not be slowing much below pace but it should lay you flat. Or at least bent.)

Lactate tolerance:

800 pace work. 2-3x 200/200/400 or 200/300/500 or 200/200/600, whatever combinations you want, totaling 800-1000 per set. 1:00-2:00 rest depending on the length and placement of the reps. Longer reps and especially longer reps to finish a set (200/600 vs 600/200) are going to be harder, closer to race simulation. You can work toward these as you get ready to race the whole 800.

Formerd1: please look up the definition of speed endurance. "Cutting out the rest" does not make it a speed endurance workout. Also, 200m is definitely not too short for a speed endurance workout.

Speed endurance should be repeats of 100 to 300 meters with a total volume of 1000 to 2000 meters. Rests should be in the range of 1 to 3 minutes between reps, and reps broken into two or more sets with a longer rest between sets.

What you were describing is a strength workout.

The classic speed endurance session is 4x4x4: 4x400 with 4 min rest at date pace. A good predictor, pretty tough session. Also, I would time trial 600, rest 6 min, then 400 with 4 min rest, 300 with 3 min, 200 with 2 min and finish with 100. The 600, run alone, was a very good race predictor.

Yeah I'm no coach and my definitions are a bit fuzzy.

I just remember there were basically two types of 800m runners. The rare talented ones like Willis, Coe, etc., would basically do 1500m workouts and still be great at the 800m.

The vast majority on D1 teams, and the top end modern elites like Rudisha, would basically just train like the 400m runners. That's why you saw lots of black kids who used to run the 400m in HS suddenly move up to the 800m in college.

I was never a fan of the 200m distance for speed, since you start feeling the "burn" in the last 80 or so meters which will inhibit your ability to do a true "speed" session. But yeah, it's probably good enough for "strength" workout (what I called "speed endurance"), although I would have done a longer distance interval as an 800m runner.

I recall the 400m runners on our team never did intervals of longer than 200m for that matter.

I would think that for 300m reps with only 45 seconds recovery all of the physiological problems that arise at the end of the 800 (lactic acid buildup, muscles losing their ability to contract effectively, etc) would happen pretty quickly, and one would spend the second half of the workout fighting against shot muscles, rather than truly engaging the anaerobic respiratory system. With 200m reps one is able to recover a little bit more, and will probably end up spending a greater amount of time (over the course of the workout) stimulating their speed endurance.

All that said, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Also, I agree that 200m reps like this are best done in the preseason/early in the season.

RuffNTuff wrote:

The classic speed endurance session is 4x4x4: 4x400 with 4 min rest at date pace. A good predictor, pretty tough session. Also, I would time trial 600, rest 6 min, then 400 with 4 min rest, 300 with 3 min, 200 with 2 min and finish with 100. The 600, run alone, was a very good race predictor.

Agreed - 4x400 on 4m rest is a classic. Early season I found it better to have shorter reps - 8x200 on 1m or 90s rest. Then move towards 5-6x300 on 2m rest. Then 4x400 on 4m rest. Then 3x500 on 5m rest ...

crete wrote:

RuffNTuff wrote:

The classic speed endurance session is 4x4x4: 4x400 with 4 min rest at date pace. A good predictor, pretty tough session. Also, I would time trial 600, rest 6 min, then 400 with 4 min rest, 300 with 3 min, 200 with 2 min and finish with 100. The 600, run alone, was a very good race predictor.

Agreed - 4x400 on 4m rest is a classic. Early season I found it better to have shorter reps - 8x200 on 1m or 90s rest. Then move towards 5-6x300 on 2m rest. Then 4x400 on 4m rest. Then 3x500 on 5m rest ...

... and the misery that is 2x600