Curious. How would you say the workouts differ? What do 'easy' days look like?
Curious. How would you say the workouts differ? What do 'easy' days look like?
Before anyone comes in with anything stupid, let's just use Rudisha as an example.
-No long runs
-Low weekly mileage (under 40mpw)
-Heavy emphasis on speed training
-Loads of weight training / resistance training
-Hours spent on biomechanical / kinetic movement training
-Easy "days" would be basically a light 4 mile jog followed by some speed-focused "strides"
-Spend most of your "running" time at extremely high speeds.
-Train mostly with 400m runners
You do NOT fall into the 400/800 camp if you're a 1500/5k guy who also has some leg speed. The 800m runners of the 400/800 ilk are actually 400m runners converted to the 800m.
The 400m runners who convert to the 800m are the best in the world at the 800m and have been for quite some time.
El G only ran a 1:46 800m for your reference.
What does the weight/resistance training look like?
formerD1 wrote:
Before anyone comes in with anything stupid, let's just use Rudisha as an example.
-No long runs
-Low weekly mileage (under 40mpw)
-Heavy emphasis on speed training
-Loads of weight training / resistance training
-Hours spent on biomechanical / kinetic movement training
-Easy "days" would be basically a light 4 mile jog followed by some speed-focused "strides"
-Spend most of your "running" time at extremely high speeds.
-Train mostly with 400m runners
You do NOT fall into the 400/800 camp if you're a 1500/5k guy who also has some leg speed. The 800m runners of the 400/800 ilk are actually 400m runners converted to the 800m.
The 400m runners who convert to the 800m are the best in the world at the 800m and have been for quite some time.
El G only ran a 1:46 800m for your reference.
This quote should be sticked.
Hamstring work, squats, olympic deadlift (cleaning).
My personal favorite is the Romanian Deadlift, its for your hamstring, definitely look into those.
Some core workouts such as basic situps, crunches, ect is also good.
Alberto Juantorena´s training almost exactly 40 years ago:
"Example of general preparation training sessions, last macro of the Olympic Cycle - Montreal '76
11/9/75 1)Warm up + gymnasium
2)Special cross (Fartlek with pre-programmed accelerations) total 13 km
11/10/75 1) Warm up. gymnasium. grass run game
2) Strength in apparatus 15 tons
3) Relative speed 3(5 x 200m). Medium speed 23.84 sec.
11/11/75 1) Warm up. gymnasium
2) Progressive series, 3 x 100m
3) Rhythm endurance 4 x 1000m. Medium speed 2:35.15
11/12/75 1) Warm up, gymnasium on grass.
2) 2 km cross (3 series of 3 x 400m) + cross-2km
11/13/75 1) Warm up, gymnasium on grass
2) Strength in apparatus, 15 tons
3) Relative speed 3(5 x 200m). mean speed- 23.63 sec.
11/14/75 1) Warm up, gymnasium
2) 3 x 100m progressive series
3) 1000m + 500m + 1000m + 500m
mean speed 1000m 2:41.35
500m 1:04.35
To this we added a power task (skipping) carried out with consecutive jumps uphill, on grass using the body weight only. This work made for a total of 89km in 1976 and was very important for the technical performance of my runs and for the stride length of 3 meters I was able to average after going beyond 100m following the start off the blocks. This resulted in my compensating for the shortcoming I had at the start, which was always slow."
To sum it up; more intensity + gym/strength training, less volume. Note that even the 13k/~8mile "long" run includes variation of pace. The workout that included "Rhythm endurance 4 x 1000m. Medium speed 2:35.15" indicates that he had some natural endurance, although the recoveries are not told.
thanks for this - very interesting read. I'd love to see more example training weeks if people have them
formerD1 wrote:
Before anyone comes in with anything stupid, let's just use Rudisha as an example.
-No long runs
-Low weekly mileage (under 40mpw)
-Heavy emphasis on speed training
-Loads of weight training / resistance training
-Hours spent on biomechanical / kinetic movement training
-Easy "days" would be basically a light 4 mile jog followed by some speed-focused "strides"
-Spend most of your "running" time at extremely high speeds.
-Train mostly with 400m runners
You do NOT fall into the 400/800 camp if you're a 1500/5k guy who also has some leg speed. The 800m runners of the 400/800 ilk are actually 400m runners converted to the 800m.
The 400m runners who convert to the 800m are the best in the world at the 800m and have been for quite some time.
El G only ran a 1:46 800m for your reference.
Rudisha is not a 400/800m
He used to do the 400m years ago and is now an 800m runner. His training will be much closer to a 1500m runner than a 400m as the latter do virtually no mileage
Very interesting to see those workouts. I just wish it included the rest.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Rudisha is not a 400/800m
He used to do the 400m years ago and is now an 800m runner. His training will be much closer to a 1500m runner than a 400m as the latter do virtually no mileage
I think that's what 400/800m usually means: 400 runner who switches to the 800. Is there anyone who is world class in both the 400 and 800 simultaneously? Rudisha ran 45.8 in 2012 which seems pretty fast to me although I don't really follow the 400.
Rudisha ran 45.50 back in 2010 and in February (!) while his 800m was 1.43/4 ish in that period. No doubts he can run 44 high when in top shape (1.41 for 800) since his trainer brother O'Connel says he can run 22s for many 200s and 33 for 300s. He does not do many miles, it has been said many times he roughly runs 70km/week. Surely not a 1500 training.
quartermile wrote:
Curious. How would you say the workouts differ? What do 'easy' days look like?
The training is quite different.
It is not uncommon for a 400m/800m to not do any long runs and at the college level is unlikely to run XC. An easy day for 400m/800m type might involve a mile run (warn up), stretching, striders and plyo.
An 800m/1500m type does a long run once a week, runs XC in the fall and an easy day might be a 5 mile run at a pace where you can hold a conversation.
This is all a generalization of course, but the easiest difference to state is the long run.
Not a dig to you but I have noticed this opinion among several UK runners, due I am sure because of Coe and Ovett and their experiences.
Sure in the past, 1500m runners were better at the 800m than their 400m counterparts due to the fact that 400m runnerd were traditionally 100m and 200m sprinters converted up. However in the 90s there was a massive shift in 400m running and a new type of powerful speed endurance training evolved, with breakthroughs in strength and biomechanics training.
Whereas a 1500m runner may achieve a 145 800m and be comeptitive with such times 20 years ago, in order to reach the 140 mark to be world class today, you essentially need to be a sprinter with immense raw speed and endurance, something which 1500m runners lack.
And El G was running crazy miles at his peak. Absolutely nothing like Rudisha who trains more like a 400m runner with a few hobby jogs thrown in.
formerD1 wrote:
Not a dig to you but I have noticed this opinion among several UK runners, due I am sure because of Coe and Ovett and their experiences.
Sure in the past, 1500m runners were better at the 800m than their 400m counterparts due to the fact that 400m runnerd were traditionally 100m and 200m sprinters converted up. However in the 90s there was a massive shift in 400m running and a new type of powerful speed endurance training evolved, with breakthroughs in strength and biomechanics training.
Whereas a 1500m runner may achieve a 145 800m and be comeptitive with such times 20 years ago, in order to reach the 140 mark to be world class today, you essentially need to be a sprinter with immense raw speed and endurance, something which 1500m runners lack.
And El G was running crazy miles at his peak. Absolutely nothing like Rudisha who trains more like a 400m runner with a few hobby jogs thrown in.
You don't have to be a 1:40 800m runner to be world class seeing as how only 1 man in history has run that. Id anything under 1:45 would be world class.
I would be curious if a current 1500m runner could run 142 or faster. Not sure we will ever see a repeat of the 800/1500 Olympic double, although we have seen recent examples of the 1500/5k double, which shows how close the training for those two events are.
Has there been a recent runner who ran in both the 800 and 1500 finals at a major championship in the past 10 years?
formerD1 wrote:
I would be curious if a current 1500m runner could run 142 or faster. Not sure we will ever see a repeat of the 800/1500 Olympic double, although we have seen recent examples of the 1500/5k double, which shows how close the training for those two events are.
Has there been a recent runner who ran in both the 800 and 1500 finals at a major championship in the past 10 years?
I know Magoofi and Kiprop have run some fast 800s, 1:42 and 1:43 i think.
I think the main issue with the 800/1500 is the schedule now a days. Magoofi was entered in the 800 and 1500 at London Olympics i think but tried to drop out of 800 and there was controversy?
ukathleticscoach:
Do you have any specifics on how Rudisha trains now?
It looks like he has competed at 400m, 600m, and 800m:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rudisha
I don't see any results for or 1500m or mile.
Still claim he's not a 400/800 guy?
400/800 training schedule
400/800 training schedule