I would like to train for 800/1500m and Marathon. My plan is to run a marathon in June 2016.
How should I train in order to minimize the trade-off? I want to be good in both events. I've approximately 25 weeks to train and the average training volume is planned to around 50-55 mpw.
When you say 'good' in both distances, what is your definition of good?
I think it's entirely possible to be good at both since they are both endurance based events albeit that the 800m requires far more speed.
I think by getting up around 50 - 60 mpw will be sufficient for your marathon but for your 800m, you will need lots of quality workouts with the emphasis on speed - so 100m, 200m & 400m reps are king here.
In addition, I would throw in strides at the end of every 'easy' long run to just remind your legs that they need to run quickly for the 800m.
Ultimately, multi distance calls for multi paced training.
Don't listen to this - it can't be done. The 18 - 24 mile runs that you need to run 26, will trash your speed legs.You sound like an 800 guy who's bored. Run marathons for fun when you're 30.
Keepitreal wrote:
When you say 'good' in both distances, what is your definition of good?
I think it's entirely possible to be good at both since they are both endurance based events albeit that the 800m requires far more speed.
I think by getting up around 50 - 60 mpw will be sufficient for your marathon but for your 800m, you will need lots of quality workouts with the emphasis on speed - so 100m, 200m & 400m reps are king here.
In addition, I would throw in strides at the end of every 'easy' long run to just remind your legs that they need to run quickly for the 800m.
Ultimately, multi distance calls for multi paced training.
This guy is talking rubbish that it can't be done. We have seen evidence that middle distance runners can make the jump up to running very good marathon times indeed.
This is a myth that running 20+ miles will somehow blunt your speed massively as speed will be maintained and developed through your quality track work.
Just remember to fine tune to both the 800m and the marathon in the weeks leading up to them and you will run good times for both.
[quote]DOCNO wrote:
Don't listen to this - it can't be done. The 18 - 24 mile runs that you need to run 26, will trash your speed legs.You sound like an 800 guy who's bored. Run marathons for fun when you're 30.
[quote]
Don't listen to this. Ever heard about Peter Snell? Ran a marathon (2.41) a couple of months before the 1.44,3 800m WR on grass. He did frequent sunday long runs.
Read Percy Cerutty's books, he talks about this.
By "good" I mean a respectable time given the amount of training of 50 mpw.
800m: 1.58-2.00
Marathon: 2.35
How would Lydiard structure a training schedule over the coming 25 weeks having in mind the combination of middle distance/marathon?
How many weeks in each phase? The marathon is however the main goal for me.
As a former 880 guy I'd say these distance are too disparate to train for both effectively. Sounds like the marathon will be run after the 800 effort?
I think I'd train hard for the 800 with a longer weekend run every other week, say 15 - 16 mi with up to half of those miles done at MP. That will not wreck your legs and make you a strong 800 guy. After the 800 switch gears, do longer intervals, more tempo runs, continue with the long runs at MP and a few longer runs on alternate weeks. Be sure to take an easier week every third or fourth week, just strides for speed work but otherwise recover and let the body adapt to the training stress.
U.N.O. wrote:
[quote]DOCNO wrote:
Don't listen to this - it can't be done. The 18 - 24 mile runs that you need to run 26, will trash your speed legs.You sound like an 800 guy who's bored. Run marathons for fun when you're 30.
[quote]
Don't listen to this. Ever heard about Peter Snell? Ran a marathon (2.41) a couple of months before the 1.44,3 800m WR on grass. He did frequent sunday long runs.
Compared to his 800, his marathon time sucked big time, so that example is irrelevant.
As a masters 800 guy who already does long trail runs up to 3+ hours, I am giving the marathon a "one-off" shot in 2016, then plan to return to 4/8/15 in 2017 when I age up in AG. Hoping the extra endurance and change of scenery helps, but mainly doing it for fun and I like putting in the miles.
That said, I wouldn't bother to do a marathon on less than 60 MPW, 70 if I was still in my 20s/30s.
What does Lydiard mean by as long as possible in the conditioning phase?
How long is as long as possible?
You can be mediocre to bad at both