Ryan Hall=Joan Benoit Samuelson?

The whole point was that we can cut a fast guy some slack for having a tough time persisting at his career. The dislike for Hall is unwarranted, especially given he and his wife's continued investment in the running community. If he stays active through to his masters years, then the comparison will have been apt.

Joan Samuelson won an Olympic Gold. Last I checked Ryan Hall DNFd in his last Olympics. Samuelson, coming off knee surgery two weeks prior, qualified for the team and the won the Gold three months later.

Then there's this...

"She would only break 2:36 once again in her career – and that didn’t happen for another six years (2:26:54 in Boston in 1991)."

First of all 4th at Boston in an incredibly tight finish between 2nd and 4th is not something to be so easily dismissed. Secondly, what about '88 and '91 New York? Last I checked 2:33 and 2:36 were under 2:36 and 3rd and 6th seem pretty elite to me.

If you can say Ryan Hall and Joanie are equal, I think we might as well just say everyone else is equal too as it's a slippery slope to giving the same status to any marathon finisher...or DNF apparently.

Not to mention she is still a beast on the roads at age 58 and continues as a great spokesperson for the sport. I saw her in the Bank of America tent during the race Sunday and while you could tell it was killing her not to be running she still took the time for pictures and to talk to people. She stuck around for well over an hour.

I thought it was because the kinda look alike if you put their photos side by side.

There's just no similarity between the two, so it was a stupid equation intended solely to get hits. World record holder in the marathon, as well as probably multiple age group wr's, Olympic gold medalist, universally acknowledged as a class act, vs. an American half marathon record holder and fastest American born marathoner with idiosyncrasies and until recently no explanation for the sudden dropoff. I hope he gets back but you could have just said like many other marathoners, Hall is done before 30.

What?

FIrst a correction. Our results database was missing the 2:33. I looked at another database and she also did run 2:32:20 in 1992 so we've changed the article to say she only ran under 2:32 (not 2:36) once again.

The article is pretty clear. We're not saying that Ryan's DNF is the equivalent of an Olympic gold. Nor are we saying his 10th in 2008 is an Olympic gold.

We're simply saying they are equal in the sense they were great up until 28 or 29 and then not nearly as good. Yes 4th in Boston isn't bad but the facts are she only once ran within 11 minuts of her 2:21:21 pb after the age of 28.

So many people act like Hall's struggles are unprecendented or that he's some giant head case. We're just saying, "Stop with the nonsense" - Joanie struggled in many of the same ways after 1985.

The biggest difference is Joanie could run 11 minutes off her pb and almost make another Olympic team in 1992. Ryan can't.

Ok, I've merged two threads into one.

Yes, you nailed it. Ryan Hall has had an INCREDIBLE career. That's what I wanted people to appreciate.

I didn't do this in the article but I think you could equate them. No, in the public's mind you can't equate as Olympic gold is a lot better than "fastest white dude ever" but but maybe in a scientist's you could. I'd like to see a Sports Gene chapter on this.

The fact of the matter is Joanie had it A LOT easier in 1985 than Hall has it nowadays.

Here's a stat for you that I just figured out.

Guess when the first Ethiopian woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?

Guess when the first Kenyan woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?

Fatuma Roba was the first Ethiopian woman to break 2:30 in the marathon. She did it in Rome (2:29:05) in March of 1996.

Angelina Kanana was the first Kenyan woman to break 2:30 in the marathon. That happened at Hamburg in April of 1994 (she ran 2:29:59).

So basically Joanie was competing against ZERO african competition zero.

Heck, I'll go a step further.

Guess when the first Japanese woman broke 2:30 for the marathon?

Misako Miyahara ran 2:29:37 in Osaka in 1988.

So she was one of the fastest North American/European woman of her era. Hall clearly is the fastest North American/European man of his era.

No non-African has come close to Hall's 2:04:58. The next best time from a non-African born runner is 2:06:05 for Ronaldo da Costa of Brazil. If you want to ignore that as Brazil certainly didn't have good women's marathoners when Joanie was competing, the next best time is 2:06:16 for Toshinari Takaoka which is 1-second better than Hall's non-winded aided best (2:06:17).

"The biggest difference is Joanie could run 11 minutes off her pb and almost make another Olympic team in 1992. Ryan can't."

Yes, and Joan started a family when she was possibly in her prime years.

sneezy household wrote:

"The biggest difference is Joanie could run 11 minutes off her pb and almost make another Olympic team in 1992. Ryan can't."

Yes, and Joan started a family when she was possibly in her prime years.

Hey, Ryan just had four kids all at once.

Many elite women have children but only Americans make it seem like such an epic career destroying feat.

Not Just running , look at the great Björn Borg, done after 26 , Same with

John McEnroe. Read a great article about Borg, he said the physical drop off after your peak years is so steep , he could feel physical skills leaving week by week.

So in the race of his life, Ryan Hall placed the same at Boston as Joanie did in a race you discount as, "isn't bad but."

"Stop with the nonsense" is right. If your point is that marathoners often peak before they are 30, fine, make that point. Please do not, however, equate the Ryan Hall with Jon Samuelson in other way that they are carbon based life forms who won a few races, which, as I said before, lets me and thousands of others say we are also equal to either using your parameters.

Ltes Read wrote:

Not Just running , look at the great Björn Borg, done after 26 , Same with

John McEnroe. Read a great article about Borg, he said the physical drop off after your peak years is so steep , he could feel physical skills leaving week by week.

I'm sure the cocaine for Bjorg didn't help. McEnroe had no motivatoin once his rival was gone.

For having an Ivy League education, you sure don't type well.

I'll agree that Hall takes way too much crap. He does not have the standing of JS but it's fair to say that she also fell off her peak form In her 20s. That is true of many others.

Hall probably will not get back to 2:06. However, Meb never got there and still won NYC and Boston. He also took second and fourth at the Olympics. Hall can still dream

Joanie is a media seeking rube.

She cannot let go of the spotlight. It's sad.

"Yes, you nailed it. Ryan Hall has had an INCREDIBLE career."

"Incredible" is not an accurate description of Hall's career. He set one American record. He's had a few top 5 finishes in major marathons. His Olympics have been mediocre (or awful). He has dnf'd more than any other elite I can think of in recent memory. Now MEB has had an incredible career. Let's reserve the accolade for those who truly fit the bill.

Benoit was competing against Grete Waitz.

Joan ran a 2:21 in the 1980s. That would have held up against pretty much anyone from any land.