Greatest American Distance Runner of All-Time?

In much less competitive eras

kimani wrote:

In much less competitive eras

Absolutely not true...

Pick a current distance and championship event (WC or OG).

How many people may have a realistic chance at the gold, or any medal?

The same number of guys that had a shot back then.

Times are faster now(for various reasons often discussed on LRC).

Competition was pretty much the same.

agc5k wrote:

Pretty simple, but who is the greatest American distance runner of all time? For the purpose of this, let's say they can't have changed nationality from another country.

For me, I'm gonna say top 3:

1. Frank Shorter- Olympic gold and silver, 4 Fukuoka wins, American Record holder at 10k and marathon for a time. Had a great range.

You know Frank was born in Germany right??

Depends on if you base this on time alone or all factors. If the latter then no doubt about it, Glenn Cunningham. Another you have probably never heard of and certainly never featured in Dieter's World, Jason Pisano. 52 marathons. One foot, pushing himself backward. Cerebral palsy could not stop him. Nor could the discrimination he faced at races like Boston. Although he was in a chair, he never considered himself a wheelchair racer, but a runner. Courage like no other.

agc5k wrote:

Pretty simple, but who is the greatest American distance runner of all time? For the purpose of this, let's say they can't have changed nationality from another country.

For me, I'm gonna say top 3:

1. Frank Shorter- Olympic gold and silver, 4 Fukuoka wins, American Record holder at 10k and marathon for a time. Had a great range.

2. Bill Rodgers- 4 Boston and 4 NYC wins. Twice set the American Record at the marathon.

3. Jim Ryun- Olympic silver, 3 mile outdoor world records, 1 880 yard outdoor world record, 1 indoor mile world record, 1st HSer to break 4 minutes.

areusure? wrote:

agc5k wrote:

Pretty simple, but who is the greatest American distance runner of all time? For the purpose of this, let's say they can't have changed nationality from another country.

For me, I'm gonna say top 3:

1. Frank Shorter- Olympic gold and silver, 4 Fukuoka wins, American Record holder at 10k and marathon for a time. Had a great range.

You know Frank was born in Germany right??

He was a natural born US citizen

Bro - Mama wrote:

kimani wrote:

In much less competitive eras

Absolutely not true...

Pick a current distance and championship event (WC or OG).

How many people may have a realistic chance at the gold, or any medal?

The same number of guys that had a shot back then.

Times are faster now(for various reasons often discussed on LRC).

Competition was pretty much the same.

Competition was most certainly not the same. One of the largest motivating factors for competition is money, and until the more recent decades, there was none in T&F. Plenty of fantastic athletes let their talent go up in smoke, simply because they didn't have the means to keep training at a high level once out of college. Back then, the top tier runners were a bunch of guys who loved the sport and had work lives that could be molded around training.

Those guys are now the "blue collar" runners of today, getting beaten day in and day out by the well-funded Rupps and Solinskys, as well as legions of East African mercenaries who travel halfway around the world to run a single race from which they could potentially earn more money than they would from years of work.

Comparing the more recent decades (the EPO Era especially) with the older eras is like comparing running and triathlons. One is clearly more competitive than the other, simply because one is far more accessible, and has far more incentives.

Joan Benoit Samuelson

kimani wrote:

In much less competitive eras

And in 50 years you will be able to say the same about today's competition.

Bad reasoning.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Joan Benoit Samuelson

Yup, and Jim Ryun for the men. Ryun beat the reigning Olympic 1500m champ while still a high schooler. He tied WR for 800m (880y converted), and still holds the Junior AR for 800m (converted).

James Ryun wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Joan Benoit Samuelson

Yup, and Jim Ryun for the men. Ryun beat the reigning Olympic 1500m champ while still a high schooler. He tied WR for 800m (880y converted), and still holds the Junior AR for 800m (converted).

Frank has a gold and silver Olympic medal though. And back then Fukuoka was the unofficial world championships of marathons and Frank won it 4 consecutive times.

Jim Ryun is definitely the best American in history on the track though.

And really it should be 2 golds. He lost to a confirmed doper.

Yeah, Frank shoulda had two gold medals if not for the drug cheat. Benoit Samuelson second. Ryun third.

fadsfasdfdsf wrote:

And really it should be 2 golds. He lost to a confirmed doper.

Nope. Unless the results are changed by the T&F authorities Shorter "win" gold for the '76 Olympic marathon. In other words, the results show Shorter did not lose to a "convicted" doper.

Oh yeah, I don't know where he ranks but Mal Whitfield. Double Olympic champion at 800. Five Olympic medals. Two world records. All in an era when it was very hard to keep running after college. Best American 800 runner ever.

1) Salazar

2) Ryun

3) Rodgers

4) Shorter

5) Virgin

Not really wrote:

fadsfasdfdsf wrote:

And really it should be 2 golds. He lost to a confirmed doper.

Nope. Unless the results are changed by the T&F authorities Shorter "win" gold for the '76 Olympic marathon. In other words, the results show Shorter did not lose to a "convicted" doper.

His claim was that Frank lost to a confirmed doper, not a convicted doper. He also did not claim that the results indicated that he was a doper. The results indicating that someone is a doper is not a necessary condition for that person being a doper, that is, someone can be a doper without the results indicating that he or she is a doper.

1. Lagat- Fast times, championships, longevity.

2. Ryun-so talented, no longevity

3. Rodgers, won New York AND Boston 4 times, raced every week for over a decade at a high level.

4. Virgin 2 x World XC champ, no american men have won since.

5. Johnny Gray- 65 times under 1:45, 28 times at 1:44 or better his 10th best time is 1:43.39, longevity at top level.

Ronny105 wrote:

1) Salazar

2) Ryun

3) Rodgers

4) Shorter

5) Virgin

I guess all of these guys would be in the top 10 if the criteria is guys that were in the top handful of runners in their speciality for at least a couple of years, but I don't know about the order.

Other names to consider are:

Buddy Edelen

Steve Scott

Rupp

Meb (the ability to have huge days on big stages when other people didn't and a great guy, but was not even the best at his event in the US for much of his career)