Could a moral vegan eat eggs from backyard chickens?

Gots to be Axed wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Then he is not Vegan. There are REASONS a person becomes a vegan, and they can be ANYTHING. The most popular reasons are health reasons, don't believe eating animals or animal products is helpful to the environment, don't believe eating animals or animal products is efficient, believe that animals suffer either by being slaughtered or in the way they are kept.

BUT, if you eat an animal or eat or use animal products, even if it is in one exceptional case, then you are no longer a Vegan...

So, someone who grew up eating hamburgers but then switched over to being a vegan is not really a vegan because there was not just one but MANY exceptional cases where they ate animal products?

Um...No. Vegan doesn't mean you NEVER did that...it means that you do not now do that (and by not now, it means you aren't doing it and plan to not do it going forward as a lifestyle).

Flagpole, what makes a REAL vegan?

Maybe Mouse wrote:

veganrunner23 wrote:

... However, the choice not to eat an animal that can experience emotion is still an admirable one, even if you still take the highway to work every day.

Good post.

I am wondering if this last sentence is true though. Every animal will die no matter what you do or don't do. Is it better for them to die of disease, starvation or perhaps at the 'hands' of a particularly 'savage' predator (think being eaten alive) rather than experience near instantaneous death by gunshot?

That's a very good point. Even though I'm a vegan, I actually have no problem with people who eat what they hunt, largely for the reasons you listed. Hunters I've spoken with actually seem to have a great respect for animals.

It's more the commercial farming that many people don't want to participate in. Yes, the animals would die anyway if they weren't killed, but the quality of their lives (sometimes only a few months) is awful. The biggest scam the meat industry has going right now is "grass-fed" and "free-range" meat. The animals on those farms are still living awful lives and are killed very quickly after they're bred.

dfgjaldhg: My brother who I thought was a Vegan- but I guess is not as he eats chicken eggs from people who own a few chickens in their backyard- does protest dog races. Not because they are made to run, but because they are treated horribly when not racing. This is second hand and all I know. He may be wrong, I don't know, I haven't personally researched it.

tell us! wrote:

Flagpole, what makes a REAL vegan?

He sets the rules, as we well know.

I would submit that someone who eats eggs from backyard chickens is more of a vegan than someone who doesn't, because millions of mice, rabbits, and other small animals are killed during harvesting every year. Eating eggs from backyard chickens is therefore kinder to animals and more vegan. Yes, this means that the definition of vegan should be changed.

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

I would submit that someone who eats eggs from backyard chickens is more of a vegan than someone who doesn't, because millions of mice, rabbits, and other small animals are killed during harvesting every year. Eating eggs from backyard chickens is therefore kinder to animals and more vegan. Yes, this means that the definition of vegan should be changed.

I've been working for years to get the definition of vegan changed to include the eating of human meat. Thousands of animals and vegetables are eaten every year by the average human, so even a couple a year makes a significant global impact.

Flagpole wrote:

Gots to be Axed wrote:

So, someone who grew up eating hamburgers but then switched over to being a vegan is not really a vegan because there was not just one but MANY exceptional cases where they ate animal products?

Um...No. Vegan doesn't mean you NEVER did that...it means that you do not now do that (and by not now, it means you aren't doing it and plan to not do it going forward as a lifestyle).

Well, then, I'm a vegan. Or at least I will be after I finish off this burger.

For a while, anyway.

Agree Completely! wrote:

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

I would submit that someone who eats eggs from backyard chickens is more of a vegan than someone who doesn't, because millions of mice, rabbits, and other small animals are killed during harvesting every year. Eating eggs from backyard chickens is therefore kinder to animals and more vegan. Yes, this means that the definition of vegan should be changed.

I've been working for years to get the definition of vegan changed to include the eating of human meat. Thousands of animals and vegetables are eaten every year by the average human, so even a couple a year makes a significant global impact.

Part of being vegan is believing that animals are more important than (other) people yo

You seem to have missed my point (probably my fault), which is that the meaning of a label is most appropriately viewed as being set by those who identify with that label. The fact is that most of the vegans I know would have no problem eating an egg from a backyard chicken. This wouldn't strike them as an un-vegan thing to do, nor would it make them reconsider their identification with that label. And frankly they won't give a sh!t that some guy on the internet thinks that they aren't real vegans any more.

mileage_man wrote:

the meaning of a label is most appropriately viewed as being set by those who identify with that label

No. Dictionary definitions are formed by public consensus, not by the subjects.

If the subjects got to make up the definitions then words like 'dictator' would be defined as 'benevolent leader'; a word like 'rapist' would be defined as 'surprise sex activist'; and perhaps the word 'vegan' would be defined by 'someone who does whatever the f*ck I say is ok'.

Sorry, imprecise wording, I didn't mean to generalize to all possible labels (duh). I agree with you about rapists and dictators, but in my view social movements should get to set their own conditions for membership. So for example atheists should get to say what it means to be an atheist, vegans should get to say what it means to be a vegan, etc. So if someone who eats backyard eggs considers himself a vegan, and other vegans agree that he is an upstanding vegan, I'm inclined to use the word as understood by those to whom it is most important. Maybe I am wrong about this, but hopefully this clarifies my view.

So can we agree on the following? According to the dictionary definition, if you eat backyard eggs you aren't a vegan. (Duh.) But many vegans would have no problem eating backyard eggs, and wouldn't consider this to make them less of a vegan. That's the important point, the rest is pedantics - I'm inclined to accept their usage, others prefer a more simplistic usage, who cares.

Billions of blades of grass die every year at the hands of chickens. Therefore, it is more vegan to eat chickens themselves than eating just their eggs, which would promote mass grass blade execution.

Yes you're right it is pedantics. I think you're right that many who use the 'quick' label of vegan probably really mean animal rights activist instead.

I really can't comment on your view that social movements should get to set their own definitions as I don't know what you are going to include as a social movement.

Maybe you know many vegans who would eat eggs. I really don't know enough personally to comment. At the risk of being inflammatory, this popped up on my facebook feed recently:

"Shame on you who eat the flesh of innocent babies and beings. You are no more than cruel savages!!!! I hope you choke on your next mouthful of flesh!!!!!"

I'm not sure she is ok with vegans eating eggs. Genuine quote btw. Representing an extremely emotional and vocal vegan no doubt, but genuine nonetheless.

Mr Elsewhere wrote:

mileage_man wrote:

the meaning of a label is most appropriately viewed as being set by those who identify with that label

No. Dictionary definitions are formed by public consensus, not by the subjects.

If the subjects got to make up the definitions then words like 'dictator' would be defined as 'benevolent leader'; a word like 'rapist' would be defined as 'surprise sex activist'; and perhaps the word 'vegan' would be defined by 'someone who does whatever the f*ck I say is ok'.

Ummm... "meaning of a label" and "dictionary definition" are two different things.

Just thought you should know.

Captain Super Duper Obvious wrote:

Ummm... "meaning of a label" and "dictionary definition" are two different things.

Just thought you should know.

Cool. When I go to the shop to buy a fork, and I know the dictionary definition of a fork, do I buy a spoon because it has a label on it saying "fork"?

Mr Elsewhere wrote:

Captain Super Duper Obvious wrote:

Ummm... "meaning of a label" and "dictionary definition" are two different things.

Just thought you should know.

Cool. When I go to the shop to buy a fork, and I know the dictionary definition of a fork, do I buy a spoon because it has a label on it saying "fork"?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2013-09-17-tumblr_inline_mt8dyxLwqO1qkifb8.jpg

See, this is exactly what I am talking about and the source of all of your troubles. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU BE ASKING SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT YOU BUYING A SPOON OR FORK???

You need to grow up and become more self-reliant and stop looking for answers from authority figures. Sooner or later we all need to grow past the mommy/daddy-help-me-please stage of life.

Wtf am I reading?

mileage_man wrote:

You seem to have missed my point (probably my fault), which is that the meaning of a label is most appropriately viewed as being set by those who identify with that label. The fact is that most of the vegans I know would have no problem eating an egg from a backyard chicken. This wouldn't strike them as an un-vegan thing to do, nor would it make them reconsider their identification with that label. And frankly they won't give a sh!t that some guy on the internet thinks that they aren't real vegans any more.

Whether your friends care what I think matters not. These "vegans" you know apparently don't know what Vegan means, and they can't just assign a label to themselves if they don't meet the criteria. Seriously. If they think that eating eggs doesn't make them non-vegans then they must be stupid. It's pretty clear that you can't call yourself a vegan if you eat eggs.

If we call a person who eats eggs a vegan, then we should call a person who runs an Olympian. I mean, why be hung up on definitions?