Say you want to run a 3:05 Marathon do you typically run with a pace group that the race offers or do you think it's better to just pace yourself with your own watch. This way causing less volatility in the pacing miles and therefore running a more even race that helps you in the long run..
I'm interested in this too. I've heard that pacers take different approaches to running the goal time they intend to hit. Some run even, some run negative splits. Is it advertised ahead of time in most cases? How does one find out?
For me, if the pacer isn't going to hit the splits I want, even though they will hit the finish goal, I'm not sure I would want to hang with them.
If you are putting in the training, run the race yourself IMO. Don't make someone else potentially responsible for you not making your goal time.
Talk to the pacer before the start to see what their approach is going to be. Maybe run the first half with the pace group, while checking splits yourself, and reassess at that point.
You should be comfortable running your target pace by yourself or with a group. I always do 2 or 3 MP 'workouts' before my marathons so I know the pace and can hit it without much thought.
i have run many marathons at a similar pace to what you are talking. and i have run some races with pacers and some on my own.
as another poster mentioned, if you are sure about your training and pacing, run by yourself. my PR (2:56 at boston) was run without pace group. however when i have been less sure about my shape i have had successful sub 3 marathons with a pace group.
its very important though to talk to the pacer and get an understanding of how they plan to run the race. are they stopping at water stops? slowing? charging hills or even effort, etc....make sure this works for you.
i have also been casually associated with a pace group. hang with them for a bit, drop them, have them catch up, try to hold on, etc.
good luck.
I pace myself using a GPS, but I do use the pace group signs as a visual, especially near the start of the race so I don't go out too fast.
both can work wrote:
i have run many marathons at a similar pace to what you are talking. and i have run some races with pacers and some on my own.
as another poster mentioned, if you are sure about your training and pacing, run by yourself. my PR (2:56 at boston) was run without pace group. however when i have been less sure about my shape i have had successful sub 3 marathons with a pace group.
its very important though to talk to the pacer and get an understanding of how they plan to run the race. are they stopping at water stops? slowing? charging hills or even effort, etc....make sure this works for you.
i have also been casually associated with a pace group. hang with them for a bit, drop them, have them catch up, try to hold on, etc.
good luck.
Thx everyone, I think I will "watch" the pace group but run at my own pacing...
Both strategies can work for you. I've had success with both.
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
And a lot of it depends on if you get a good pacer. Most times these people are like you (supposedly) and me...just regular runners. They have bad days too where they can't keep the pace or are just bad pacers. I've also had great ones.
If I've decided to run with pace group I use a pace wristband as back up. Some times the way the pacer decides to pace is just off to me. You can get one here where you can have it adjusted to what you want to do either based on the hills on the course or paces you decide you want run. Go out easy, neg split, etc.
www.findmymarathon.com/paceband.php
. This way I can rely on my own splits if the pacer is not good.
I hear ya man. I need a 3:10.. I think I'm in 3:07-3:09 shape. That might not be good enough for Boston. Also don't like relying on a GPS watch.
So I've debated running with the 3:05 guy
Eddie R wrote:
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
If you want someone who is going to give you updates every mile on how the pace was last mile, how far ahead/behind pace the group is, and what a great job everyone is doing run with me. If having someone babbling every mile is going to get on your nerves you may want to move away from me.
Whenever I am pacing I try to come in ~15 seconds under but for 3:05 I want to be at least 30 seconds early; I'd hate for someone to miss their BQ due to a rounding issue.
I've never officially run with a pace group, but I've joined up with them for portions of a marathon. In a large race being with a large group complicates water stops and moving in traffic early in a race, so I've generally opted to avoid them and run my own race.
On the other hand, if you are aiming 3:05 and you go blowing by the 3:00 pace group at mile 3, consider the probability that one of you is screwing up pacing.
Eddie R wrote:
Both strategies can work for you. I've had success with both.
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
And a lot of it depends on if you get a good pacer. Most times these people are like you (supposedly) and me...just regular runners. They have bad days too where they can't keep the pace or are just bad pacers. I've also had great ones.
If I've decided to run with pace group I use a pace wristband as back up. Some times the way the pacer decides to pace is just off to me. You can get one here where you can have it adjusted to what you want to do either based on the hills on the course or paces you decide you want run. Go out easy, neg split, etc.
http://www.findmymarathon.com/paceband.php. This way I can rely on my own splits if the pacer is not good.
Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
crammingrunning wrote:
Eddie R wrote:Both strategies can work for you. I've had success with both.
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
And a lot of it depends on if you get a good pacer. Most times these people are like you (supposedly) and me...just regular runners. They have bad days too where they can't keep the pace or are just bad pacers. I've also had great ones.
If I've decided to run with pace group I use a pace wristband as back up. Some times the way the pacer decides to pace is just off to me. You can get one here where you can have it adjusted to what you want to do either based on the hills on the course or paces you decide you want run. Go out easy, neg split, etc.
http://www.findmymarathon.com/paceband.php. This way I can rely on my own splits if the pacer is not good.
Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
????
If you run it right, you will end up with a negative split. That is generally the preferred method. Unless you are a '5 or 6 hour, just finish type', you should be able to run a negative split. It's all in the pacing.
joho wrote:
crammingrunning wrote:Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
????
If you run it right, you will end up with a negative split. That is generally the preferred method. Unless you are a '5 or 6 hour, just finish type', you should be able to run a negative split. It's all in the pacing.
I guess what I meant is that running a negative split is hard, and I don't plan on racing that way. Especially if the first 13.1 pacer was at exact pace to hit a number and the second pacer was running faster than the pace time therefore running a negative split and faster pace time than what was planned.
crammingrunning wrote:
Eddie R wrote:Both strategies can work for you. I've had success with both.
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
And a lot of it depends on if you get a good pacer. Most times these people are like you (supposedly) and me...just regular runners. They have bad days too where they can't keep the pace or are just bad pacers. I've also had great ones.
If I've decided to run with pace group I use a pace wristband as back up. Some times the way the pacer decides to pace is just off to me. You can get one here where you can have it adjusted to what you want to do either based on the hills on the course or paces you decide you want run. Go out easy, neg split, etc.
http://www.findmymarathon.com/paceband.php. This way I can rely on my own splits if the pacer is not good.
Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
It sounds to me like the pacer ran a POSITIVE split if he "took off like a bat out of hell." That's not running a negative split.
Old D2 Guy wrote:
crammingrunning wrote:Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
It sounds to me like the pacer ran a POSITIVE split if he "took off like a bat out of hell." That's not running a negative split.
There were two pacers for this marathon 1 pacer ran the first 13.1 on pace and the second pacer for the back half of the 13.1 ran like a bat out of hell.
I ran my first BQ unofficially running with the pacers. I found it to be a great experience. It took me out of my own head. When it came down to the final miles where everything really counted I either had it or I didn't and I was glad that I didn't waste the first 22 miles of the race fighting off my own pacing anxiety. It largely depends on your pacer and the rest of the people in your group, but typically you'll end up in a group of people similar to you in ability and goals with a pacer who has done faster than your pace before and has some confidence in pulling this off.
The water stops were more crowded, but in the end I found this useful. I noticed that I lost several seconds at each water stop, as evidence by the pacer continuing on without breaking stride hardly at all. It reminded me that I had a few seconds to make up each time and this was easy to do with a pack that just needed to be caught a few meters ahead.
I don't think it's possible to run a marathon with even splits and have done so at even energy. You would need to have a course with no elevation, turns, etc. I laugh when marathoners fight to maintain the same pace every mile. You should be running at effort. Pacers are good at doing this and ones who are familiar with the courses will have smart race strategies. There may even be more than one way to skin a cat, but the important thing is with a pacer you pick one strategy and see it through. In my anecdotal experience the runners trying to hit exact pace starting from mile 1 succeed less often than runners paying less attention to the clock. This is in part I believe because the clock/pace watchers think they need to run a 100% perfect race to accomplish their goal; whereas, the carefree runner is more confident in his or her conditioning, does not require 100% performance to succeed, and will execute a more relaxed effort. Due to the aerobic nature of the marathon the latter runner will almost always succeed more.
Good Advice Shoebacca!
crammingrunning wrote:
Eddie R wrote:Both strategies can work for you. I've had success with both.
Running with a group can't make the pace seem easier. But sometimes you can get in s group with some annoying people.
And a lot of it depends on if you get a good pacer. Most times these people are like you (supposedly) and me...just regular runners. They have bad days too where they can't keep the pace or are just bad pacers. I've also had great ones.
If I've decided to run with pace group I use a pace wristband as back up. Some times the way the pacer decides to pace is just off to me. You can get one here where you can have it adjusted to what you want to do either based on the hills on the course or paces you decide you want run. Go out easy, neg split, etc.
http://www.findmymarathon.com/paceband.php. This way I can rely on my own splits if the pacer is not good.
Yeah I ran 1 marathon were there were actually a pacer for the first 13.1 and then another for the second 13.1. The second 13.1 pacer of the marathon took off like a bat out of hell and ran a negative split. Just kinda annoying since "most" people don't and really can't run a negative split...
Having 2 pacers sounds like the worst idea ever. What race was this?
I start with a slower group and once I'm warmed up I try and catch as many other groups as possible. It's just a game to stop me getting bored.
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Having 2 pacers sounds like the worst idea ever. What race was this?[/quote]
Yeah it was horrible IMO. I never ran a marathon well never a stand alone marathon only in Ironmans, so I never knew that there was going to be 2 "separate" pacers. I looked on the website and it never mentioned 2 separate pacers and when I walked up to the guy at the start line holding the 3:xx sign I said what's up and how you gonna run, he said smooth and stead. I looked at the guy and said to myself "Damn this dude gonna run a 3:xx holding that sign?" Dude didn't look at all in 3:xx marathon shape to me. But I didn't think anything of it, the 1st pacer did(guy) exactly what he said smooth and steady, then at like mile 14 I see this little peanut grab the sign from him like out of nowhere and she was on a mission from god and he just quit running lol She just took off she was ticking off miles -10 pace then even pace then -15 pace, I had my GPS with me saying "hey hey". At mile 20 I started to let the group leave me because she was running way to fast. The group got really small at this point.
In hindsight I should have just let the pace group go at mile 16....I don't want to say which marathon..