No name Kenyan Cherono Gladys wins Berlin Marathon, big red flag

8:34/14:47/30:26

The other guy! wrote:

I mean, I had literally never heard of Cherono before, did she even run before 2015?

Maybe Renato can explain. Turtle blood soup?

She has been a big name for a couple of years. She was the favorite coming in with a 2:20:03 PR and a 66:38 half-marathon.

Her big jump in performance was in 2013 when she went from a 68:18 half PR to 66:48. She also has a 14:47 and 30:29 to her name from 2013. Those were also big improvements from her previous PRs.

Just like anyone, I can't say whether or not she's doping, but there's nothing in her progression this year that looks suspicious to me. If you wanted to accuse her of doping based on big performance jumps, you're about 2-years late.

She won silver at Worlds at 10,000m in 2013.

She won the World Half Marathon in 2014 and had run 2:20 before.

If she's no name it's an indictment on the popularity of our sport or on how people group all the Kenyans together as "no name Africans".

Full disclosure: I did not know all those facts without having to look them up.

wejo wrote:

If she's no name it's an indictment on the popularity of our sport or on how people group all the Kenyans together as "no name Africans".

Sorry to be the one to say this, but I've always thought the unwillingness here to see Kenyans (good or bad) as individuals betrays something more sinister.

The other guy! wrote:

I mean, I had literally never heard of Cherono before, did she even run before 2015?

Maybe Renato can explain. Turtle blood soup?

Gladys is clearly NOT a no name.

Now, the fact that you've never heard of her raises a red flag to those who follow the sport.

I am quite literate when it comes to pro running, but I have to admit, I hadn't heard about her before either.

Lets analyze her:

She is 32 year old, before 2012 (age 29), her PRs were:

31:40 10,000 / 1:09:26 HM

At age 29 until now, she suddenly improves big time:

30:56 10,000 / 1:06:38 HM / 2:19:25 (worth 29:43/1:06:15 in the calculator!!!)

Especially her HM progression is worth a look at:

2005: 71min

2007: 71min

2008: 69min

2009: 69min

2011: 70min

Normal progression until here. She improved over the years then got older and got a bit slower again. Then, BOOM:

2012: 68min

2013: 66min

2014: 67min

2015: 66min

When I saw this, I couldn't help but wondering if she has an Italian coach.

BOOM, coached by Gabriele Nicola

And then of course, there is ARD documentation explaining how easy it easy nowadays to buy drugs in Kenya.

http://www.daserste.de/information/reportage-dokumentation/dokus/videos/geheimsache-doping-engl-version-100.html

I wouldn't call any of these red flags but it's worth a discussion.

Thoughts?

So calling the OP here an ignorant and stupid is what got me banned?

WTF is going on on this site, Weldon and Robert?

You let people make racist comments and yet one of your mods, or one of you, banned me because little OP princess here got offended?

Fast Runner Dude wrote:

BOOM, coached by Gabriele Nicola

He's Italian and she's East African so we know there's nothing fishy going on!!

A couple more thoughts:

Fast Runner Dude wrote:

Especially her HM progression is worth a look at:

2005: 71min

2007: 71min

2008: 69min

2009: 69min

2011: 70min

Normal progression until here. She improved over the years then got older and got a bit slower again. Then, BOOM:

2012: 68min

2013: 66min

2014: 67min

2015: 66min

1. Again, this isn't your miracle Kiprotich story where someone doesn't begin running until they're 28 and therefore continues to improve into their 30s. This is a woman that has been running professionally since 2004, and in the first 8 years didn't make much progress.

2. I've heard many times over and over again that women can improve well into their 30's (longer than men). I call BS on this. The typical progression you see is that of a Kara Goucher or Paula Radcliffe. Once they turn 30, it's all downhill from there.

Fast Runner Dude wrote:

A couple more thoughts:

Fast Runner Dude wrote:

Especially her HM progression is worth a look at:

2005: 71min

2007: 71min

2008: 69min

2009: 69min

2011: 70min

Normal progression until here. She improved over the years then got older and got a bit slower again. Then, BOOM:

2012: 68min

2013: 66min

2014: 67min

2015: 66min

1. Again, this isn't your miracle Kiprotich story where someone doesn't begin running until they're 28 and therefore continues to improve into their 30s. This is a woman that has been running professionally since 2004, and in the first 8 years didn't make much progress.

2. I've heard many times over and over again that women can improve well into their 30's (longer than men). I call BS on this. The typical progression you see is that of a Kara Goucher or Paula Radcliffe. Once they turn 30, it's all downhill from there.

ohhh everyone bow... He is so knowledgeable...

Every woman, downhill, 30... ohhhhhhh

You don't have really the idea about how many women in Kenya have the possibility to run very fast, but their training is very poor.

The situation of Gladys is very clear : till 2011 she woreked with a small manager purring her in small competitions, mainly in Spain and Portugal.

In 2012 she joined the management of Gianni Demadonna, Always coached by her husband.

In 2013, she and her husband looked at the track, coming in touch with myself and Gabriele Nicola. At that time, she had a bad injury, and spent long time for recovering the full efficiency, thanks to the medical staff of the management in Iten, specifically with the help of Jeroen Deen, ducth physio working in Iten with many among the best kenyans, and in Addis with many of the best Ethiopians. She had still the eye on track, and I gave her husband advices looking at 10000m. Gladys ran in Ostrava in 30'29"23, was selected for WCh, and won the silver medal in Moscow with 30'45"17.

She had good speed, running also 8'34"05 in Stockholm and 14'47"12 in Zurich, but, because on track there is little money if you are a specialist of long distances, decided to move to long distances, stimulated by Gabriele, who is also the coach of Mary Keitany.

Immediately after WCh in Moscow, she joined the training Group of Mary Keitany, and her husband started to follow with continuity the training programs prepared by Gabriele Nicola.

Last year (2014), she became World Champion of Half Marathon in Copenhagen, and this year debutted in the Marathon of Dubai, where lost in the final sprint for less than one meter, running 2:20:03. About the HM, she imnproved her PB on 26.04 in Istanbul, with 1:06:38.

Instead to think immediately of doping, can be better if somebody could try to know the personal situations of every athlete. In Africa, the most consistant percentage of improvement happens when talented athletes, previously using little training (and many times for some event that is not their best), can finally join some of the organized training camps of European managers : in Iten (Gianni Demadonna and Global of Jos Hermens), in Kaptagat (a second camp of Global, the camp of Federico Rosa and the camp of Ricky Simms), in Kapsabet (again Rosa), in different places the camps of Volare with Wilson Kipsang and Geoffrey Mutai.

The reasons are clear : finally they can have more professional assistance, both technical and medical, and in many cases finally have to eat...

People in Letsrun continue not to give importance to the change of training systems. You need to understand that volume and intensity of training are strictly connected with the technical knowledge of the coaches, and with the mentality of the training Group. World class athletes are not amateur, and the organization of their training (including physiotherapic support) is not as the organization of amateur runners (who don't have any organization).

In Kenya, there are many small groups without coaches (or with local coaches without real knowledge about proper methodology) producing good talents, not able to run fast because their training is ridiculous. When some of these talented athletes can finally join one of the professional training camp, there is a big jump of performances, in very short time, but this happens only because before there was no real training at professional

level.

At the end, the fact that somebody THINKING to follow athletics never heard about an athlete winning silver medal in WCh on track, and currently been World Champion in Half Marathon, shows very simply that the knowledge about athletics of the most part of posters in Letsrun doesn't exist, and that the most part of discussions on this board are among people speaking about something they don't know.

For that year,