I'm tired - 17 of the last 36 days have been hard efforts - please help a high kid

The first Monday workout doesn't sound too tough. Alternating between 60 seconds at race pace and 30 seconds of recovery for ~4 miles was a standard early season workout for my team, so you're doing an easier/abbreviated version of that.

Kind of silly to do a dual meet and tempo back to back, but it's not unusual to have two workouts back-to-back. I'd just run the dual meet to win and not push harder than necessary. Also make sure you aren't racing the tempo.

1. Make sure you run (hopefully an hour) at recovery pace on Sundays.

2. Stop racing your workouts.

take the dual meets easy, run your solo mileage easy, don't race your workouts, calculate the splits you should hit based on your 5k goal and just focus on doing that.

your coach is giving you work, but it's not necessarily super hard work. i think if you run smart and get enough recovery AND shift your focus to the more important meets of the season, you can manage it. if it gets too tough for you guys, talk to your coach and ask for more recovery or easy work. i'm guessing he might taper it down towards the end of the season and is assuming you guys need sharpening up from the summer.

Thanks for the feedback

just a young runner wrote:

I put the work over the summer. I am managing it. Not racing very well and probably overworked. I am tired all of the time.

I feel bad for the younger kids. They are probably just dead. For them it is probably 36 straight days of hard work.

Anyways our head coach doesn't listen to our feedback. Actually he doesn't even ask for it.

How can I get this man to listen or to be curious about how we are feeling?

Thanks

I feel for you. I don't understand coaches who think so much hard running is productive in the short or long term, really. I don't have any good answers for you other than to just keep trying to communicate with him and point out your results. And make sure that on the days you are supposed to run easy, you actually DO run easy.

I have three athletes right now competing at DI colleges as freshmen and they are all saying the exact same things you are. You'd think most college coaches might have more of a clue, but evidently not. When a low 17 minute 5K girl runs in the mid 20's for 5.2K, there is a problem...but the coach isn't listening. When a 9:2X 2 miler is asked to run 4 mile "tempo" runs at sub 5 minute pace, you have a race, not a tempo run. I just don't get it.

Quitcherbellyaching. My training from high school.

September 3 - September 9 33 miles

9/3

9/4

9/5 PM 7 easy

6/6 PM 6 easy

6/7 PM 3.5 easy

6/8 PM 7 easy

6/9 AM 1 mile jog, 1 mile (5:03), 2 X 800 (2:20), 4x400, 1 mile jog

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September 10 - September 16 64 miles

9/10 PM 3 easy, 8 x 180 hill, 4 easy

9/11 AM 5 easy PM 7 fartlek

9/12 AM 5 easy PM 12 x 400 w/ 400 jog

9/13 PM 9.5 easy

9/14 AM 3 easy

9/15 AM 3 easy PM 6 hard

9/16 AM 7.5 moderate

-----------------------------------------

September 17 - September 23 110 miles

9/17 AM 5 easy PM 8 easy

9/18 AM 6.5 easy PM 10 moderate

9/19 AM 7.5 easy PM 13.5 easy

9/20 PM 4 moderate, 6 miles fartlek

9/21 AM 7.5 easy PM 12 easy

9/22 AM 7.5 moderate PM 12 easy

9/23 AM 7.5 moderate PM 8 moderate

-----------------------------------------

September 24 - September 30 108 miles

9/24 AM 10 moderate-fast PM 1 mile easy, 12x180 hill, 2 easy

9/25 AM 6 moderate PM 4 easy, 8 x 180 hill, 3 easy

9/26 PM vs Suitland: 1 mile easy, 3 mile XC (16:34, 1st), 5 easy

9/27 AM 4 easy PM 12.5 easy

9/28 AM 20x400 (75) w/400 jog PM 10 moderate-hard

9/29 AM 5.5 moderate PM 13.5 moderate

9/30 PM 12 moderate

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October 1 - October 7 104 miles

10/1 AM 5 hard PM 9 miles of hills at Battery Kemble Park

10/2 AM 7.5 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

10/3 AM vs Crossland: 3 mile XC (15:59, 1st) PM 5.5 easy

10/4 AM 6.5 easy PM 3 easy, 6x400 (64), 2 easy

10/5 AM 9 easy PM 12.5 easy

10/6 AM 12x200, 4 easy PM 5 easy

10/7 AM Palotti Invitational: 1 easy, 2.8 mile XC (13:51, 1st), 1 easy PM 8 easy

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October 8 - October 14 106 miles

10/8 AM 5 easy PM 10 moderate

10/9 AM 8 easy PM 2 miles of hills, 5 easy

10/10 AM vs Northwestern: 2 easy, 3 mile XC (16:18, 2nd) PM 4 easy, 2 miles of 180s, 4 easy

10/11 AM 3 easy, 6x180 hill, 3.5 easy PM 20x400(69.2) w/ 400 jog

10/12 AM 6 fartlek PM 5 easy

10/13 AM Georgetown Invitational: 2 easy, 3 mile XC (16:25, 1st), 1 easy PM 5 easy

10/14 AM 14 easy PM 1 easy, 8x800(2:30), 1 easy

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October 15 - October 15 86 miles

10/15 AM 5 easy PM 10 miles fartlek

10/16 AM 8 easy PM 1 easy, 32x200(34), 1 easy

10/17 AM 5 easy PM vs Parkdale: 1 easy, 3 mile XC (15:54, 1st), 5 easy

10/18 AM 9 easy PM 5x1 mile (5:10) w/ 7:00 jog, 2 easy

10/19 AM 10 easy PM 8 x600 w/300 jog

10/20 PM Van Cortlandt Park, 5 easy

10/21 AM Van Cortlandt Park, Eastern XC Championship, 1.5 easy, 2.5 mile XC (12:39, 4th, winner D. Sandridge 12:20)

-------------------------------------

October 22 - October 28 87 miles

10/22 AM 5 easy PM 12 easy

10/23 AM 9 moderate PM 10 miles fartlek

10/24 AM 8.5 easy PM 5x1 mile 5:08 w/ 800 jog

10/25 AM 6 moderate PM 7 easy, 6 miles fartlek

10/26 PM 4 easy, 4x200 strides

10/27 PM PG County Championships: 2 easy, 3 mile XC (15:18, 2nd, winner D.Sandridge, same time)

10/28 PM 6 easy, 8 x200 strides, 4 easy

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October 29 - November 4 79 miles

10/29 AM 5 moderate PM 8 easy

10/30 AM 5.5 easy PM 8.5 easy

10/31 AM 9 easy PM 1.5 easy, 4 x 1 mile, 1.5 easy

11/1 PM 11 easy

11/2 PM 6 easy

11/3 AM Battery Kemble Park, District Meet: 3 easy, 2.7 mile XC (13:56, 1st, course record, old record 14:08, G. Oliver BCC)

11/4 PM 12 moderate

-----------------------------------

November 5 - November 11 72 miles

11/5 AM 6 moderate PM 3 easy, 8x200, 6 easy

11/6 AM 6 easy PM 11 miles of hills

11/7 AM 12 easy PM 400, 10x200, 400 strides

11/8 PM 7.5 easy

11/9 AM 5 easy PM 5 easy

11/10 rest

11/11 AM College Park, State Championships: 2.5 easy, 2.5 mile XC (12:55, 3rd, winner J. Smith 12:48)

Cut out the weed...then maybe you won't be a "high kid".

malmo was that your junior or senior year?

By this Saturday I will have already run 6 races and basically that is when your season was just starting.

You were running 100mpw and never broke 15 in a three mile? Not that those aren't solid times, I just find that strange from someone who later ran professionally.

Make or break it at the D1 level, you obviously coach HS for a reason.

"Make or break it at the D1 level, you obviously coach HS for a reason."

You are right about that! I coach high school because I love it and am pretty good at. It is discouraging to develop a kid and then have them go backwards in college because the coach runs them into the ground, forces them into a cookie cutter system, and doesn't listen to what the athletes have to say about how they are feeling. I guess if that's what I'd need to be to coach college, you are right, I would not be good at it. Guess I'll stick to high school.

Quite a few more athletes might "make it" if they had a college coach that was willing to do a little more individualized development. The good ones do that. But it's a lot more work to do that than just tell everyone to do the same thing.

HonestThief wrote:

You were running 100mpw and never broke 15 in a three mile? Not that those aren't solid times, I just find that strange from someone who later ran professionally.

Since when do times matter in cross country? We ran on real cross country courses, not flat and manicured Rupp-certified courses. Three out of the top four runners in the East were from my neighborhood. We raced each other weekly.

Clean up your diet, get more sleep....and...take every other SUNDAY OFF! Starting this week!

When a teenager is tired he needs sleep. Up to 12 hours a day!

It's hormonal it ain't no joke.

I went to a seminar called "train to train and the teenage brain" since then I tell my teens to sleep and they all got fit and fast and HAPPY

Do you swim?

Get in the water one day a week...cold water ocean if possible...as cold as you can stand.

Very invigorating...you will feel alive not tired.

I can go no wetsuit to 47* for 10 -15 minutes.

Good luck

HSCoach#5678 wrote:

You are right about that! I coach high school because I love it and am pretty good at. It is discouraging to develop a kid and then have them go backwards in college because the coach runs them into the ground, forces them into a cookie cutter system, and doesn't listen to what the athletes have to say about how they are feeling. .

One of the best things you can do as a high school coach is to steer runners into college programs that fit the athlete. From personal experience, I know it's a real ego boost for you when athlete X gets a full boat to Enormous State University, but ESU may not be the best fit.

Develop a good personal network with good college programs.

Malmo's example is just a tiny bit more than what most the top guys in Ohio are doing now. Not too many are going north of 100 MPW, but 80-90 is pretty common for those who can handle it.

Should be noted that of course that kind of mileage can't be had unless you did the work in the summer to be able to handle that kind of mileage. I'm privy to one team in particular, and a few of the boys (the top guys) on that team were in the 80-85 MPW range in the summer with one week at 95. In season they have dropped it down to about 70 and then they will go down to maybe 50 for the last couple weeks when the meets really matter. Not everyone can handle higher mileage. One of the top guys on this referenced team is a bit injury prone and so he tops out at about 50 MPW.

Run slower in the workouts.

You are right about that! I am doing everything I can to network with college coaches and figure out who the good ones are for the various kinds of athletes who come through my school. In my case, it's not about the kid getting into a school with a "makes me look good" program, though. The problem occurs when the athlete is set on a certain school for academics and is good enough to run for that program, is recruited by them and even offered a scholarship. But they pick the school for the school, not because the school's team is a good fit for them. I have one kid who only wanted to go to one school, admitted he didn't even like the coach, but was going to go anyway. Things are not going well. Another who was set on a school close to home (with a crummy program), wouldn't even look anywhere else, got offered a very good scholarship, but also did not like the coach much (nor did the kids on the team like the coach, as she found out on her official visit) She went anyway and now is running over 2 minutes slower than she ran in hs for 5K. Injured and has "dead legs" all the time. Both of these kids had great potential, one was a Footlocker finalist. So depressing.