why is my 5k time so much better than my 10k time?

You're not running enough. You can get by on that mileage for the 5000 but it's not gonna get you through a 10000. Run more miles, run a longer long run and start doing a tempo each week. Your tempo will help you more than that workout will. Your tempo pace should be around 5:50 per mile, 5:45 at the fastest if you're doing a short one (3 mile or less). You could try a 3x2 mile tempo at 5:45 pace with two minutes rest (jog) or you could do 3 miles at 5:50 pace and when you're stronger you can go 5 miles at 6:00 pace and then up to 7 miles at that pace when you're even stronger. Up your miles gradually and up your long run. This should be a breeze for you. Just by adding the miles your 5000 will gr faster but when you add the miles and the tempos (for example slowly get your mileage up to 80) you'll break 16 more than likely but that's further down the road and will take some more training at that pace to do it. Anyway, you'll see a tremendous improvement.

duh everyone's is, a 5K is half of a 10K

If you ask me, i'd say that you're better off running the 800m repeats at 2:32 pace resting 2 minutes than running them at 2:43 (3:24kmpace?) with 30 seconds. You probably aren't recovering properly with such short rest.

Even better make them 1200m repeats.

Understand the value of 400m/300m repeats concentrating on form. Those should be the bread and butter of any middle distance runner but 10km can cetainly benefit from them.

I never had a long run in my training plan and i sincerely don't understand why most people insist on doing them.

I just do 2 continuous runs with same duration (generally 70 minutes) weekly along with 3 workout and a double of 60 + 40 fast at afternoon.

I really don't think that doing a 90 minute run would be worth the trouble at least for me.

If 70 minutes isn't cutting it just do 70 minutes faster and I guarantee that you will improve. 90 is nonsense unless you are training for a marathon.

Also just have fun and as long as you work, results will appear don't sweat it!

Thank you! In summary, more endurance work needed!!

train for the 10k slightly different. try alternations for some 10k strength, for instance. give it 6-8 weeks. run a 10k again.

some lunatic wrote:

duh everyone's is, a 5K is half of a 10K

lol

chestertt wrote:

Hello everyone.

My pb at 5k is 16m45s while I have consistently struggled to go sub 36m at 10k. My 10k pb is 36m09s. These times suggest that I am operating at a significantly higher vdot value for my 5k according to Daniel's tables.

Can anybody suggest reasons for this and perhaps suggest what type of training sessions I can do to improve my 10k times? My weekly training is around 40 miles/week including a long run of about 10 miles and one interval session, typically 6-8 x 800 at 3m25s / km pace w/ short recovery (30s).

Thanks!!

I just reread your post and want to add a couple of things. Long runs have always worked for me but that doesn't mean they will work for you. I'm saying this because another poster brought up that he thought that long runs were useless. For me, I found them to be very useful. I don't have a lot of speed but I have plenty of strength and have an odd training schedule built around my strengths. So experiment with the long run and see how it works for you

If you are indeed running only 40 miles a week with a 10 mile long run, then you are either averaging 6 miles a day in five days or 5 miles a day in six days. I think that if you can slowly build up your mileage that you will see a tremendous improvement. I don't know how long you've been running or how old you are but you should be able to run sub 16 pretty easily with some improved training.

Strides. You should consider doing strides a couple of times a week, as they will help with your economy. Do maybe eight or ten 10-20 sprints with a solid two minute recovery (or maybe even more)

for each one. If you have a steep hill, do them up the hill, it'll be even better. These can never really hurt.

As the other poster said earlier, I'm not wild about your 800m workout. If it's working for you that's great but you could probably do something that will be better for you. Maybe make them into 1200s at 5000m pace with equal rest or something like that. So if you're running a 1200 in 4:00, then you should rest for 4:00 after that 1200m. (those are 5:24mile pace). You could do three or four of those to start.

Another important thing is to not try and add all of this stuff at once. Make everything gradual. I don't know what the timeframe you're working with is but running requires patience. If you try and run 80 miles next week and do a tempo a long run and a 4x1200 workout, you'll feel like you're going to die. So take it easy. If you're running 5 miles a day I would start running seven miles instead and maybe make your long run 12 miles. Do that for at least four weeks and then add a mile to each. If you're doing 6 miles a day, make it eight and do that for at least four weeks. I like a long run of around 18-20 miles but you don't need to do that at all. I would keep increasing your mileage until you are running 10 miles a day. You can't expect to be a 10k stud if your daily run is 10k or less. If you work up slowly and you're running seven days a week at 10 miles a day plus a 12 mile long run you'd be at 72 miles a week. You will see such a difference in your fitness and times that it would probably blow your mind. Although the other poster didn't see the point of a long run, to me, I always felt like it made me stronger. When I'm fit, I don't tire a lot in races. I have no kick and can't really make strong moves but I can sustain a pace and not tire. I felt like my mileage (including my long run) helped with that. Don't start doubling until you're running at least 80 miles in singles. Also, make sure that you don't run your recovery days too hard. If you're feeling tired from the workout the day before, just run slower. Don't be a workout hero, save it for the races. Again, experiment a little and just be patient and take things slowly. Find out what works for you and don't be discouraged if the results aren'y immediate. Once you reach your mileage limit (whatever it is 60 miles a week or 80 miles or whatever) I would give yourself at least 8-10 weeks at that number to allow yourself to adjust and for you to see the improvements. Because I concentrate more on strength, I would just be doing mileage and tempos for 8-10 weeks and then I start the harder workouts. You probably don't need that but you'll be able to figure out what works for you. Good luck.

to . Thank you so much for taking the time to offer that advice. I got a lot out of it. The line "You can't expect to be a 10k stud if your daily run is 10k or less" made a lot of sense to me!! I'm 33 years old, male and have been running for about a year.

I think my plan now is to focus on the upcoming cross country season. Up my weekly mileage over the winter until I hit about 70 miles / week. Then in the spring I definitely think I can realistically hope for 10k times in the 34 - 35 min range. Fingers crossed!!

chestertt wrote:

to . Thank you so much for taking the time to offer that advice. I got a lot out of it. The line "You can't expect to be a 10k stud if your daily run is 10k or less" made a lot of sense to me!! I'm 33 years old, male and have been running for about a year.

I think my plan now is to focus on the upcoming cross country season. Up my weekly mileage over the winter until I hit about 70 miles / week. Then in the spring I definitely think I can realistically hope for 10k times in the 34 - 35 min range. Fingers crossed!!

Oh yeah you can do that no problem. I didn't start running until I was in my mid 30s. I was just aimlessly running about 50-60 miles a week. Just running 10 miles at a time for fitness/fun. Always around 7:45-8:00 pace. I started racing once every two weeks or so and my times kept dropping like crazy. Then I met other runners who thought it was comical that I wasn't even a runner and I was running as much as I was. So I started training with them and became more serious. In one year I went from something like 18:30 to 17:10. Then the following year is when I really started running like mad and had a 10 week block of 90-100miles and killer workouts. Then I ran 16:49 ( at age 38 after maybe 2.5 years of running). I also ran a really hilly 10 miler the following year in under 60 minutes that I was just running as a long tempo run. I then got a non running injury and had other stuff derail my running. That was four years ago and I am just starting over now. Anyway, good luck. If you run like crazy and do solid workouts I wouldn't be surprised if you could run 15:30 in two years maybe even less.

First of all, you would definitely need to run more miles. My 5k pr was slightly slower than yours (16:57) and my 10k pr was 34:34. My highest mileage week was 100.

What's really going to get you there is more miles and LONG long runs. I'm talking about eventually working up to 2 hours plus. At least that's what worked for me.

The specific workouts that will get you ready for a faster 10k will be more helpful once you have the mileage base in order to complete them.

I ran a 4:02 mile. How come I never ran a 5k faster than about 15 minutes? Partly I didn't care. But I also know that I have to accept that I'm not a distance guy. I tried to get better at what I'm good at. I accepted my limits in the other distances and worked to improve my relatively mediocre times. Just work to improve. It is especially helpful when you max out at your ideal distance.

This guy is right, your speed is better than your endurance. The forth guy is right too. Here is a quick tip on interval speed: 400 should be run at mile race pace, 800@3k race pace, 1200@5k race pace. Another thing is there is a difference between race workouts and fitness workouts. If you are trying to improve fitness then your interval pace is too slow, but if you're just getting race ready then its fine. Personally, i would switch to the 1k-1200m@ 5k race pace with a minute recovery. Since you need more strength, i would do a longer tempo, maybe 4-4.5 miles, at a slightly slower speed-6 flat.

Because you're a better 5K runner.

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all the advice. I am posting to complete the thread. Last night I ran 35:20 for 10k on the track in a regional race. The past 6 weeks I did not up my weekly mileage (steady around 35-40 mpw) but I did increase my weekly long run until it was around 16 miles. I also did a series of longer intervals at goal 10k race pace.

week 1: 3 x mile repeats

week 2: 4 x mile repeats

week 3: 4 x 2k repeats

I found the sessions tough but felt the benefits in the race between kilometers 5-8 where I have often struggled in pb attempts at 10k.

I plan to increase my weekly mileage over the winter until I am around 55-60mpw and continue with long runs and more tempo work. I could do with losing 5 or 6 kg also as I am 75kg and 5'10''. Thanks to all posters

'I never had a long run in my training plan and i sincerely don't understand why most people insist on doing them.

I just do 2 continuous runs with same duration (generally 70 minutes) weekly'

Is that not 2 long runs!

From my journal and what I've seen at other runners, the daily average distance ran is the distance you train for.

If you look at the results of different runners on 5k and 10k, you will see that the average time on 5k during a 10k race is minimum 35 seconds slower than their PB.

I was never a very good runner, but was wondering why my 10k time was better than my 5k time. I ran 17:15 5k and 35:00 for 10k.

George Ilie wrote:

From my journal and what I've seen at other runners, the daily average distance ran is the distance you train for.

If you look at the results of different runners on 5k and 10k, you will see that the average time on 5k during a 10k race is minimum 35 seconds slower than their PB.

So, by that logic:

5K Training = 22 mpw

10K Training = 44 mpw

Half Marathon Training = 92 mpw

Marathon Training = 184 mpw

Did I get that right?

My first guess is this wrote:

I wasn't even a runner and I was running as much as I was..

OK