Sub 2:45 Full

I've done several thons in the 2:38-2:45 range. Your 5K time indicates that you could run faster than you have. Your half mary time is slower than it should be. If you could get 8-12 weeks of serious mileage (80-100) you would crush your thon and half mary PR and your 5K. You're prob a little too close to benefit from a mileage increase right now but in the future if you can up your mileage you'll crush your next thon.

Yeah, I know. That is what the training tables say too. I am very conservative early at distances over 5k. I usually negative split the longer races.

jonesie022 wrote:

Yeah, I know. That is what the training tables say too. I am very conservative early at distances over 5k. I usually negative split the longer races.

Well then you have the answer right there. If you wanna take down your thon and half mary PR you're going to need more miles. You can handle the thon as you've already run one and broken 3:00:00. You would not believe the kind of impact that a jump in mileage will have on all of your times most especially your thon. Nothing to it but to do it. If you bagged running this thon and instead ran a half mary and then trained through the winter, you'd crush your PR in a spring thon no doubt.

The marathon has as much to do with concentration as it does with fitness. There are some supplements out on the market right now that will give you instant gains as well as increase your Low T. Your recent pr of sub 17 tells me you may have some Low T symptoms based off the comparison with the other prs. I use the supplement Garbage but there are also some other really good and clean carb replacement options out there that even increase my memory capacity and concentration

If you have a heavier frame or are still carrying a bit more weight than you should, that may explain the difference between your shorter races and 1/2+ distances. If you are as skinny as can be, you are probably just lacking experience and confidence at the longer distances. If you can book a spring marathon, I would recommend shooting for 2:47-48 this time and sub 2:45 next time. Sub 2:45 is not a big barrier, but dropping 8 min off your marathon time is not something that can be done without a pretty big boost in fitness. And, if you are not in shape to go sub 2:45, you could bonk hard. A bonk can be a big monkey on your back at subsequent races. Better to shoot for the time you can run instead of the time you want to run.

I'm kind of in the same boat, maybe more extreme. Ran 16:25 5k recently on the roads, but only hit 2:47 marathon and 1:20 half. Goal is sub-2:40; by the conversion tables it shouldn't be hard, but I've been struggling. I've been running about 50-60 mpw--thought is to up that into the 80+ range this fall with the focus on long runs and tempos, and cut back a bit on the intensity of theshorter workouts to hopefully stay healthy. I'm thinking I just need to get aerobically stronger with higher miles, though maybe someone on here has better ideas.

My opinion:

The majority of people run too much speed and not enough miles. I've run 4 marathons and I ran my best one when I did more miles, beasier easy days, and long tempos (up to 13-15 mile tempo). For most people, speed is not an issue if you are only trying to run 2:40 marathon...if you are trying to run a 2:20 or faster marathon, then you are running pretty fast and might need to work on turnover. But, I would suggest that speed work occur during your off-cycle and not necessarily during your marathon buildup. During the off-cycle the goal would be to do speed work to get to a point where 5 min pace feels really relaxed...then during the buildup the goal would be to get to a point where you can hold the pace for an extended period of time.

So...in short...do more miles, make the tempos and long runs count, and make sure you are going easy enough to recovery in between.

Basic week:

Sunday - Long Run of 12-20 miles (depending on the training cycle) at around 7:15 pace with an all out last mile (usually try to break 6 or a 3/1 where I run the last 25 percent of the run at marathon pace)

Monday - Recovery run of about 45 minutes or 6.5 miles

Tuesday - Either hill repeats 3-6 x 400 with a 400 jog recovery, 4-8 x 800 at 2:45-2:50 with a 400 jog recovery,

Wednesday - Recovery run of about 45 minutes or 6.5 miles

Thursday - usually a tempo run of up to 45 minutes

Friday - Recovery run of about 45 minutes or 6.5 miles

Saturday - Marathon Pace run of anywhere from 6-10 miles

It definitely looks like you have the capability to do it, but 60-65 mpw is pretty low mileage. Maybe you could play it safe for the upcoming marathon and just try for sub 2:50, then ramp up your mileage for the next attempt.

Going through the half in 1:21-1:22 and then blowing up is pretty awful. I speak from experience.

LOL, not sure there will be a next time. Was lucky enough to purchase a bib for Chicago off of Ebay in 2014 and am running Columbus (the course many say is the second flattest course in the midwest).

Don't really have a desire to do Boston.

I guess we will see. :)

Thanks for the feedback guys.

If I were to add extra mileage would you recommend 2 a days on certain days? Workout days vs easy days?

I'd distribute it evenly over the week, but don't increase the long run.

How I structure my week:

M: 6-8miles

T: AM - 4miles PM - 8-10miles

W:AM - 4miles PM - 10-13 mile tempo (14-17 total w/ WU & CD)

R: 6-8miles

F: AM - 4miles PM - 8-10miles (sometimes if I feel good I work in some faster stuff here)

S: 8-10miles

S: 20-24miles (I vary this...sometimes finish at MP...sometimes just steady the whole way...also a good indicator workout is 10 miles normal, 10 miles MP, 2 miles cooldown)

Total: This works out to anywhere between 80-100 MPW

sub 2:45 full as opposed to sub 2:45 half lolololololol

You are already there. 60-65 miles/wk should take you to 2.45. If I can do 2.48 on 50-55 miles/week, with a half PR of 1.21 and 5k of 17:30, you should be fine. Tables say you're good for 2.42 on a perfect day, so 2.45 is doable. It's tough though. Only worry is that your half is a bit off, but if that's a conservative run as well, you're good. No need to change stuff. Hit target pace and stay there and you will either do it or just miss out and end up in 2.46-47 (depending on metal abilitiy).Good luck!

Is there any chance you can run a half 4-6 weeks out? Is that half pr recent? The most impressive part of the training right now is 8 miles at "just over" 6 minute pace. Assuming we are talking 6:00-6:05 pace for those 8 milers, that should put your half time at say 1:18 low/1:17 high. Even if you hit this faster half time, 2:45 might be a stretch on 60-65mpw. If you are doing those 9 miles at almost mp at the end of a long run then that's impressive. Otherwise I'd say maybe some faster long runs (maybe some at 90-95% of mp, so 6:35-6:54 range), fast finish long runs (like 20 miles with 10 at 7:15, 5 at 6:45, 5 at 6:15), and definitely more marathon pace work built into long runs.

You definitely have the speed at the 5/10k distances, so I'd say just go big marathon specific workouts maybe twice a week. Try 8-12 continuous miles alternating 10s/mile faster than mp and 10s/mile slower than mp. Or 20s/faster per mile and 20s slower. Just so you average marathon pace for the workout. Or 4x5k or 3x 4-5 miles at mp built into a long run. Don't go out too hard in the race. Maybe 2:48 would be more reasonable based on current half pr/mileage. Good luck!

M: Increase your T

T: Pump

W: Rest

T: Check your Low T

F: Rust Buster

S: Thon

S: Rest

Hi,

I'm shooting for a goal a little slower (2:55) and thought this was a really helpful reply!

I keep seeing "do a half 4 -6 weeks before" often. Problem is in my area there is a ten miler 4 weeks out from my goal and two half 3 weeks out from my goal.

This will be my sixth marathon and I average around 65 to 70 a week with a long run and long repeats (2, 3, 4 miles) at MP minus 10s.

Is it better to do a half three weeks out or a ten miler four weeks out. Splitting hairs I know!

Thanks!

The half personal best is from May, the 5k/10k were recently in July.

Yeah, I have been running in the 5:55-6:05 range for my tempo runs and hitting about 6:25s on my marathon pace runs of which nine miles has been my farthest thus far.

Did a set of 7 Yasso 800s yesterday on a track and hit about 2:47 average with a 400 (2 minute) jog recovery. Was a little humid, but I have done this workout every third week and increased from 3-7. Haven't been slower than 2:50 yet.

There is a half 5 weeks out in my area. Suggest I run it? All out? @ marathon pace?

I would suggest starting at 2:50 pace, hitting the half at 1:25, then possibly negative splitting, maybe waiting until 18 miles or so to see how much is left in the tank. If things go really well, you end up with a 2:47 or 2:48. If they don't, maybe you end up with a low 2:50 something.