you're good wrote:
morebeerslessfears wrote:with a good solid xc season building endurance and maybe running a 5km in 17min or faster, getting your 400m down to 55-56, you might be able to run under 2:08...
Bang on. I am 56 / 2:06 / 16:50 for those distances (more speed-oriented type).
I hate to break it to you, but if your 400 PR is 56 and your 5k PR is 16:50, you're not a speed oriented 800 runner. You're an 800/mile guy.
Solid speed-oriented HS 800 guys can do around 24 / 52 / 1:59. I've known plenty of guys with those times, and they've generally run around 17:30 - 18:00 for 5k in XC. These guys could break 4:45 in the mile, but only a handful of them could run under 10:30 for 3200.
I've also known a lot of guys with your range of PRs. Almost all of them had mile PRs in the mid 4:30s, which were far stronger than their 56.xx 400s.
To OP: decide how you want to approach the 800. 2:30 with no training indicates nothing--many 17 year old guys who play soccer/basketball or swim/bike/participate in other endurance-based sports regularly could hop onto a track and run that.
Do XC and see how you do. If you're hitting around 18 minutes for 5ks, but you're around 55-56 for the quarter, you should be looking at approaching the 800 from a speed-oriented perspective. Work on getting your 400 time down, don't worry too much about mileage, and do lots of speed and race pace specific work, and you could have a shot at some decent 800 times. Sub 2 would probably be possible in this instance, but 2:02 - 2:05 would be more realistic.
If you're running under 17:30, but your 400 PR hasn't improved dramatically by the end of XC season (64 may just indicate a general lack of fitness, in which case XC should improve it significantly, but say you're still hovering around 60 seconds) then you should be looking into the longer events, or into a very endurance-based approach to the 800. Here mileage will matter more, but you'll be able to handle volume-focused workouts better. You'll still need to work on speed a lot--in order to be competitive in a varsity HS 800, you'll need to be splitting under 60 for the first 400--but you should be doing higher volume interval workouts. I wouldn't bet on sub 2 here--the prerequisite speed is around 54-55, and that's if you've got a monster aerobic system. I'd probably assume you'd be somewhere from 2:06 - 2:09. If the speed comes along really well, low 2s / under 2 might be possible.
If you're running around 17:30 AND your 400 PR has improved to around 55-56, breaking 2 could be a realistic goal. Focus on the speed aspect--if you can get down to 52-mid in the quarter while maintaining your endurance, you should be able to run somewhere from 1:59 - 2:02 once you peak.
If your 5k PR is 18:00+ and you're not around 56 in the quarter by the end of XC, sub 2 is probably out of the cards. You should still look to break 2:10, but it'll take something really special for you to run under 2. Either way, train to your strength--if the speed comes along better, train as a 4/8 runner. If the endurance comes more easily, train as a 8/15 guy.
Also keep in mind that breaking 2 is arguably harder from an endurance side than it is from a speed side. Many guys with solid endurance--say, 4:25 - 4:35 milers--are stuck in a rut of 2:02 - 2:05 for a very long time. Breaking past the 2:02 barrier simply requires a speed component that they don't have. On the other hand, I've seen strong 300H/400 guys (40/49) run under 2:02, and strong 300H/400 (45/57) girls run under 2:20 off of zero specialized endurance training--I'm sure the guys couldn't break 5 and the girls couldn't break 5:30.