Would a 4:55-5:00 miler make any low caliber teams?
Would a 4:55-5:00 miler make any low caliber teams?
Division 3 Doesn't Cut...
YoureStupid wrote:
Division 3 Doesn't Cut...
rofl
Did not run in high school Ran for a good academic DIII school but at the time not known for good track running. My mile debut was 4:55, but a year later I was running mid 4:30s. A 4:50 mile/4:30 1500 would place you in the bottom 3 (out of 20 or so) at the conference meet. Winning times were in the 4:05-4:15 mile /3:48-3:58 1500 range. We had guys on the team that were 5-5:10 milers, but they didn't run the bigger meets.
I coached D1 and D3 for 25 years. Trust me: there are Division *One* teams that have male distance runners who can't break 5:00 for the mile.
Many people simply don't understand how many terrible cross-country teams there are. At lots of schools, xc is just a cheap quota-filler: you can't sponsor an NCAA basketball team unless you have X other sports, and cross--with a low budget, part-time coach, and no aspirations for success--is often one of the "others."
As one almost-random example, check the results from last year's Southern Conference xc meet. The SoCon is a decent D1 conference that has produced some fine athletes--but it also has some slower people:
http://athletics.wofford.edu/documents/2014/10/31/MEN_OVERALL.pdf
(And those, bear in mind, were each school's BEST nine runners. They left slower ones at home.)
And at Division Three, forget it!
So Furman is a legit team...I know that the letsrun elitist will hate on a DIII school but going 1-9 at a conference meet with the 9th runner at 24:40 is very respectable.
lease wrote:
Many people simply don't understand how many terrible cross-country teams there are. At lots of schools, xc is just a cheap quota-filler: you can't sponsor an NCAA basketball team unless you have X other sports, and cross--with a low budget, part-time coach, and no aspirations for success--is often one of the "others."
Thank you! So many people here say things like, "average D1 mile time is 4:10". No way. There's a huge backwater of lousy teams.
When I was in college there were runners on other teams in my conference (NAIA) that may not even have made varsity on my high school's team.
Name: wrote:
So Furman is a legit team...I know that the letsrun elitist will hate on a DIII school but going 1-9 at a conference meet with the 9th runner at 24:40 is very respectable.
Furman is definitely legit, but they're D1, not D3...the SoCon is a D1 league.
I was at a meet where 3 girls took between 40 and 45 mins to finish a 10k on the track. I guess the coach figured they weren't going to be scoring any points or beating anyone in any event so he might at least let them get as much exercise as possible. I've seen xc 8ks, usually on hilly courses where the last handful of guys straggles in around 33+ mins.
In my region (DII) there were many schools that had runners than had never run competitively before, they were just filling roster spots.
LOL there were dudes on my college team running over 5:10 at D1 meets. They'd get lapped in indoor... It was an embarrassing time for those of us that could at least keep pace with the pack and better. But yes, there are teams that keep those slow guys.. Look for some lower tier Catholic Universities, they feel bad for cutting people who "try hard".. absolutely mental
BeHonest wrote:
Would a 4:55-5:00 miler make any low caliber teams?
There are plenty of lower level teams where someone of that caliber would be welcome. For example, here are results from a cross country meet for smaller Massachusetts public colleges
http://www.coolrunning.com/results/14/ma/Nov1_MASCAC_set5.shtml
Averaging a little under 6:00/mile for 8K puts you in the top 1/3. The middle runner averaged 6:10.
On top of that, many schools with truly competitive programs also have club running teams that compete in races like these:
Even though you could run for some bad DI teams, I don't understand why anyone would want to do that. Go find a DIII team and decide to try to get better. You get into the low 4:30s for the mile and they (most DIII teams) will have a use for you.
This will be my 15th year coaching a small D2 school, XC only. The slowest guy I've coached was around 40:00 for 8k. I think his best in college was around 38:45. Of course there's more to the story... He's from a rural part of the state where our college is located and ran on his high school team. He had been born with some physical issues that limited one of his legs to only bending about 45°. He stopped by my office before classes started, told me his story and asked what he needed to do to run with the team. We had a decent team that fall but I had room on the roster so my main concern if he was going to be on the team was that he was going to get behind on all the training runs and get lost. It's hard enough for the freshmen to follow some of the routes we do until they get to know their way around, let alone trying to do it solo. I thought it over and decided to give him a chance with some caveats like I would give him modified routes that were out-and-backs and when we were doing workouts I'd have him start with the rest of the team but kind of do his own thing - or if somebody on the team needed to go easy they'd go with him those days. He was a hard worker, no doubt about that. Earned everybody's respect very quickly. In 4 years I never heard a complaint. I think he only beat a handful of guys from other colleges racing for us but he never stopped trying. He ended up graduating as a triple major Bio/Chem/Math almost Physics too almost a 4.0 and just completed Med School.
Perspective...
There is a D3 womens team near me with a 10,000m track school record that is over 45 minutes.
No matter how slow you are you can always find a place to run.
There was a guy on my college team who would run around 35 minutes for 8k cross country races. This was a team that at least sends a few individuals--if not a whole team--to nationals every year.
On most D3 teams, as long as you don't hurt the team in other ways (with a bad attitude, for example), coaches will let you keep showing up.
Pretty much anyone running over 15 minutes for 5k is useless at any level.
The worst, most delusional college runners are always the 15 min guys. They think they're better than they are. Even if they were a minute faster they would still suck. Ask any 15 min guy their pr and they will tell you how their workouts indicate sub 14:30 shape.
Hiram's entire team runs anywhere from 32 to 40 minutes for 8k.
The slowest guy on my above average D3 team runs 5:3X/19:2X.
Fasterthanthou wrote:
Pretty much anyone running over 15 minutes for 5k is useless at any level.
The worst, most delusional college runners are always the 15 min guys. They think they're better than they are. Even if they were a minute faster they would still suck. Ask any 15 min guy their pr and they will tell you how their workouts indicate sub 14:30 shape.
Classic letsrun post!
Put down the other guys while putting yourself on a pedestal (but without revealing anything of yourself).
Well done lad! 7.5/10
Keep working on it.