How Would the US Champs 1500 be different if everyone trained/raced that event.

Centro would still trounce everyone. Beyond that, I don't know.

Jonathan Gault wrote:

Centro would still trounce everyone. Beyond that, I don't know.

Obviously not true. Rupp is nearly as fast Centro and he trains for the 5k/10k. If he focused on 1500, then he would be better than Centro.

I bet Lagat could still win at 1500 every so often if he was still training for it.

Jager clearly would be competitive. So would Cheserek and Lalang maybe.

fj long wrote:

Jonathan Gault wrote:

Centro would still trounce everyone. Beyond that, I don't know.

Obviously not true. Rupp is nearly as fast Centro and he trains for the 5k/10k. If he focused on 1500, then he would be better than Centro.

I bet Lagat could still win at 1500 every so often if he was still training for it.

Jager clearly would be competitive. So would Cheserek and Lalang maybe.

Minus Cheserek and Lalang, being that they're not US citizens...

fj long wrote:

Jonathan Gault wrote:

Centro would still trounce everyone. Beyond that, I don't know.

Obviously not true. Rupp is nearly as fast Centro and he trains for the 5k/10k. If he focused on 1500, then he would be better than Centro.

I bet Lagat could still win at 1500 every so often if he was still training for it.

Jager clearly would be competitive. So would Cheserek and Lalang maybe.

Are you stupid? Like totally stupid? Your comments are laughable. I normally get mad when posters belittle others and use words like stupid but I dont know what else to say.

No, Rupp wouldn't be competitive and no Jager wouldn't be competitive either. An no Lagat wouldn't be either.

Rupp has a great kick - for a 10k guy. Jager has run one fast 1500 ever. Lagat is old.

It's the 1500 people. If people could be good at it, they would do the event and be good at it. It's the most glamorous distance even on the track by far. It's like the 100. If you could be great at it, every single person at USAs would run it.

No runner in American history has ever said, "Oh i could be the most amazing miler ever but I think I'll run the 10,000."

Remember Pre? He wanted to be great at 1500 but couldn't so he moved up.

Centro is the reigning World Championship silver medallist. Last time I checked Rupp didn't win a medal in Moscow. If Rupp could beat Centro, he should have run the 1500 all along. Rupp couldn't break 4:00 for years.

No disrespect to Ford Palmer, but Jager lost to him earlier this year at 1500. And you think Jager could be great at 1500? There's a huge difference in occasionally running fast in a time trial (which some distance guys can do as they are strong) versus actually being a great 1500 runner which requires a huge finish and great speed.

Jager's 800 pb is 1:50. Centro has run 1:44.

Galen Rupp 800 pb is 1:49.87. He used to lose to college walk ons in that event.

They aren't remotely close to fast enough to be great at 1500. And they can't quickly change gears either.

rojo wrote:

Jager's 800 pb is 1:50. Centro has run 1:44.

Galen Rupp 800 pb is 1:49.87. He used to lose to college walk ons in that event.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3380182

They aren't remotely close to fast enough to be great at 1500. And they can't quickly change gears either.

Working with those stats, please realize that Centro closed in 1:48.7 today:

Centro could let Rupp and Jager sit out the first 700 of the race and probably beat them. Now that would make track and field exciting.

Okay, admittedly I'm not a guy at USAs, but if Ihad a choice between being competitive at the 100 or the 1500 I'd choose 1500 hands down.

I reckon that using Rupp and Jager's 800m PR's here is flawed. Considering that Rupp has recently (2 years ago?) closed a 10k in 1:52 and can once in a blue moon close in 52, he can probably run well under 1:50 in an open 8. Probably 1:47ish if he really gunned it. Jager's recent 1500m time trial implies a similar 800m ability. They would have to drive from farther out, e.g. 1200, though, so that the last 800 doesn't get too close to their actual 800 ability as it did today.

Bottom line is that Jager and Rupp would put up a fight. I don't think Centro would destroy either of them, although he'd probably still win.

Old Man Winter wrote:

Bottom line is that Jager and Rupp would put up a fight. I don't think Centro would destroy either of them, although he'd probably still win.

Centrro just destroyed manzano. Of course he'd destroy rupo and jager.

Rupo ran he brussels 1500 last year. He was 11th. He ran the Boston mile and was a dnf.

Jager lost to Ford palmer a few weeks ago.

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IMHO, RUPP would be competitive. If he worked on his 1500M kick he might not beat Centro *(remember, he has a 3:50 indoor mile and 8:07 Indoor 2-Mile) but he is strong enough to gap most USA'ers enough to beat them even with a kick not as feroucious as some of the others. Remember, anyone wanting to beat Rupp would basically have to run 3:49, maybe even faster if Rupp trained for 1500M.

Rupp might have an advantage in a multi-round event where there are several qualifying heats.

Wasn't SOULEIMAN practically laughing at Centro when Centro tried to challenge him in the final straight at Pre?

SOULEIMAN: "Is there a mosquito on my back?" SWAT!

So Centro dominates a mediocre 1500 field here in 3:37.25. Is he really that dominating that Rupp couldn't challenge him?

Rojo, rupp has run 3:50 indoors. If he trained explicitly for the 1500, in a fast race he could at least give centro a run for his money. On a good day, he beats him. In a slow race, I give it to centro though. Better gear change.

Wtf???? wrote:

Rojo, rupp has run 3:50 indoors. If he trained explicitly for the 1500, in a fast race he could at least give centro a run for his money. On a good day, he beats him. In a slow race, I give it to centro though. Better gear change.

In a fast race, sure, but wasn't the point of the thread at USAs? Rupp, no matter how he trains, is not going to outkick a healthy Centro in a championship 1500, unless Centro falls or decides to spot Rupp 50 meters for some reason.

Even if it is a fast race -- Centro has run 3:31. Even if Rupp could solo his PR (3:34), which is unlikely given he's always had rabbits in the past, Centro could hang on comfortably at that pace. Let's say focusing on the 1500 gets Rupp down to 3:32 high, 3:33 low. Still in Centro's wheelhouse. He doesn't lead, he takes it to Rupp easily. All he has to do is wait until the last 100 and change gears into one Rupp can't match. Over. (All this is also true of Jager, who despite great strength and natural speed, has shown himself not to have the gears -- this is a Schumacher training thing, maybe, as he was regularly splitting sub 50 in high school, but since turning pro Jager has not had gears even in 3ks or 5ks, so he's not about to match Centro/Manzano's shifting ability. Over over over.

Rupp has run 3:50 for the mile. That is faster than 3:34. Sure, Centro has run 3:31, but realistically Centro is usually a 3:32-3:35 guy on the circuit. He's almost as inconsistent as Manzano. Rupp, however, is one of the most consistent runners in the US. That's why he would be competitive.

A consistent 3:32-33 guy vs an inconsitent 3:31-3:35 guy is what you would have between Rupp and Centro.

Winning is not always about gears. You can win with a hard solid effort from the start too.

Hey Rojo, are you forgetting about Rupp's 3:50 mile INDOORS?

Centro trains for the mile year round and has only managed a 3:50, and at the time Rupp was his 3:50 Centro's PR was 3:51

If Rupp fully committed to the 1500m/Mile he would be up there with Centro, Jager would be in the mix as well

Manzano typically likes to peak towards the end of the season, he still beat Cento at Monaco last year in 3:30.98, and has beat him on numerous occasions (Olympic Trials, Olympics, Drake Relay mile) in a kick, I'd never count him out and he proved in Monaco he can be a good time trialer along with his good champion style racing

Unfortunately for all our other American 1500m runners they can't seem to get past 3:34

Rupp closed a 5000m in 52.5 in 2012 at Trials and Centro just closed a 1500 in 52 (but he closed 600 in 1:17.9, just under 1:44 800m pace). He has run 3:50.9i. He has also run 3:34 early and was not at full strength, I believe in that DL 1500m. Centro has never run 3:50.9i and hasn't broken 3:50 outdoors yet. In DL 1500s, prior to Pre this year, Centro hadn't been competitive either. And if Rupp trained for 1500m rather than 5000, he would have a better 800m time and a better kick. In fact, if you realize that Rupp at his best was not far behind Farah, and Farah ran 3:28.81 in a sub 3:28 race, then you see that Rupp also had a chance to break 3:30 in such a race at his peak. So, it is definitely not in any way laughable to talk about Rupp in the context of Centro, particularly with 1500m specific training. But Centro has those medals at this distance, he has the far superior 800m as it stands, and he absolutely did challenge Souleiman and Kiprop at Pre. Centro would have handled Rupp as well yesterday. But Rupp would likely have qualified. It's not about pure 800m time; it's about how much you have left when you go through 900m in 2:19 or 1100m in 2:45.

Rupp is strong but not fast, he wouldn't have a chance!

If you are a runner or knowledgeable about the sport lets say hypothetical that with 600 meters to go Galen is next to Matt, if you were to watch the two form I'm certain that you'd say Matt would win based upon the fact of how effortless he looks while accelerating, running fast.

Sure 3:50 is a great time in a perfectly paced race, however he can't respond/cover a power move like Centro threw in yesterday, very few people could. The entire 1500 meter field was at the mercy of Matthew, they knew what was coming but couldn't do anything about it. The NCAA D1 800M champion Andrew Wheating knew it was coming but couldn't respond, AND THE FIELD WAS GAPPED!

P.S. In the 800 Meters on Friday Solomon tightened up the last 100m, go back and watch the video, he needs to qualify first before talking about doing some type of craziness at National Championship.

How someone looks is irrelevant. If your statement was true, then Centrowitz would never lose. If you were a runner or knowledgable about the sport, then you would know this.

It's also meaningless to say "600 meters to go". You need to provide a pace up to that point. If the pace is slow, then it could be Centrowitz. If it's fast, it could be Rupp.

Not every race has to have a "power move". Andrew Wheating not being able to do anything about it is irrelevant as is him being NCAA D1 800M champion. He was better in college than he is now. The field was gapped because the US has a bunch of 3:36 runners and only a few currently faster than that.

First, he gapped the field because he closed in 148. I used Andrew because he has a 1:44 - 800M, 3:30 - 1500M and a 3:51 mile PR. Leo's stat's are very similar to Andrew however his 1500M pr is 3:32.

Matt would never lose!

WELL, in recent years how many times has Centrowitz been beaten in the 1500M by a National competitor? If he's not injured who in America is going to beat him in a 1500M, and I'm not talking about a first meet of the season, or if he's training though a meet.

Rupp's best 800M is 1:48, now do you think if Centrowitz had to close a little quicker then 1:48 off a slow pace like yesterday 1:47.99 could he?

How someone looks, did you see the final 100 meter of the 5000M, a coach, parent of an athlete, athlete, someone knowledgeable about the sport can look at the runners form and see which runners are tightening up, straining.

Watch the runners on USATF.TV or youtube and observe their form rewind and watch it again.