Elite 800-5k Training

I don't post much on here, but in hopes of kicking off a thread that can actually generate some discussion and constructive ideas on training I can tell you about how I trained in the past.

Now as a miler, I trained as a middle distance runner in the truest sense. As a result, my 5k and 10k PR's(14:07 and just 29:45) suffered because I put a heavy emphasis on training specific to the task. With a 3:39 PR for 1500, i have little doubt that there were periods where I probably could have run much faster than those(surely sub 14:00), but never real high caliber times. In my opinion, when optimally training for the 1500, it is seldom possible to run a comparable 5000m time. However, when optimally training for the 5000m, it is possible to run a comparable 1500m or when training optimally for 1500m it is possible to run a high caliber 800m race.

The biggest pillar of training to consider, no matter what the distance you are training for in my opinion, is the base period. Focusing mainly on 800-1500 (sometimes 5k), there were many times during a period of race preparation where I would run up to three workouts during the week in addition to a long run and often strides or accelerations on easy days in between. In order to handle the volume of high intensity training necessary for optimal middle distance racing, a large aerobic base is imperative and should be built over a period of at least 12 weeks. For me, that meant running upwards of 80miles/week. During the racing season or gearing up for it, I could drop to 65-75miles/week depending on where I was with training and racing. So in that very important cycle of training where you are sort of leaving the base phase and gearing up for all the big races but not quite started the super sharp track stuff, a typical two weeks for me would look something like:

Mon: 50min steady + 8x100m/Core and Strength

Tue: AM: 30min easy, PM: 4 Mile Tempo (~20:00) plus 6x150 (50m Sprint/50m Float/50m Sprint)

Wed: 70min Steady

Thurs: 50min steady + Core and Strength

Fri: AM: 30min easy, PM: 1000m hard under 2:35, then 6x1:30on/1:30off (avg 5:05), then 5x300 cutdown 48, 46, 44, 42, 40.

Sat: AM: 30min easy, PM: 30-40mins easy + 100mStrides/Strength

Sun: 100mins Moderate (16Miles) ... Total: 75miles

Mon: 50min steady + 8x100m/Core and Strength

Tue: AM: 30min easy, PM: Michigan (1600, 1200, 800, 400 with mile tempo between each) approx: 4:36( 5:45), 3:18 (5:30), 2:08 (5:30), 58

Wed: AM: 30min easy, PM: 40-50min steady

Thurs: AM: 30min easy, PM: 8x250m Hill + 6x300cutdown on the track

Fri: 50min easy

Sat: AM: 30min easy, PM: 2x1mile with 5:00 jog between: 4:22(Road), 4:16(Track) + 5x200 cutdown

Sun: 90-95mins steady .... Total: 70-75

Let me know if this helps or if you have more questions about specifics.

This is awesome! Thank you for posting :)

GreenRunner wrote:

Now as a miler, I trained as a middle distance runner in the truest sense. As a result, my 5k and 10k PR's(14:07 and just 29:45) suffered because I put a heavy emphasis on training specific to the task. With a 3:39 PR for 1500, i have little doubt that there were periods where I probably could have run much faster than those(surely sub 14:00), but never real high caliber times. In my opinion, when optimally training for the 1500, it is seldom possible to run a comparable 5000m time. However, when optimally training for the 5000m, it is possible to run a comparable 1500m or when training optimally for 1500m it is possible to run a high caliber 800m race.

I'm a bit confused. If one can run a time comparable with ones best times for 1500 meters simply by training for 5000 meters, why not train for an "optimal" 5000 instead of an "optimal" 1500?

Is this why Aouita could run a fast 800 and a brilliant 1500/mile and 5000 (and hell, 10,000) in the same season?

I don't necessarily agree with 5000m specific training leading to a comparable 1500m time. I do agree however that by doing 5000m training, ONCE you started increasing your speedwork little by little (focusing on 200m, 300 and 400m repeats) the 1500m time would drop a bit. Of course that you would have no problem in handling the volume, but intensity would be the challenging part.

Now the key is to discover how to increase that speed/power without losing all your endurance. There will always be some endurance sacrifice but it's possible to keep it balanced. I like to keep always a long workout weekly like 5 x 1000m with 1-2 min rest, or even 2k/2k/1k.

A similar logic could apply to 800m/1500m but since their training doesn't differ all that much it is less noticeable.

any idea wrote:

I'm a bit confused. If one can run a time comparable with ones best times for 1500 meters simply by training for 5000 meters, why not train for an "optimal" 5000 instead of an "optimal" 1500?

Is this why Aouita could run a fast 800 and a brilliant 1500/mile and 5000 (and hell, 10,000) in the same season?

Comparable does not mean optimal. If I am training for 5k, can I run a decent 1500m along the way? Yes, but that does not mean I am in peak shape to run a 1500. But if I am training for 1500m I could never get close to the 13:40s shape I knew I could be in - I just did not have the engine necessary aerobically. There are outliers like Webb and Aouita who had incredible engines that could have been world medalists in virtually every event they tried, but these are anomalies.

i tend to agree here. in my experience, training between 800m and 1500m does not differ all that much except in overall volume. The jump from 1500 to 5k is where basic changes start occurring. In college my junior year I ran 3:54 and 1:53 for 1500 and 800 focusing on middle distance training and then my senior year i moved up to 5k because we felt like my best shot at conference was to get into a kicker's race in a 5000. I ended up running 14:30 that year when prior to it i had only run 14:58 in several attempts at the distance. i think there are ways to train for both and there are outstanding athletes who are exceptions but for the mere mortals to get ideal training in you have to train SPECIFIC TO YOUR EVENT

GREENRUNNER- i was wondering if you could give me an idea of what your last few weeks would look like and what some of your favorite 1500m peak sessions were

When did you run at Michigan? I thought your training regime sounded familiar. Must have sucked being a 1500m runner when the likes of Brannen and Webb were there, unless you came before or after them.

MidD-

The last month or so of sharpening for me got very specific. While I would run three workouts a week and drop my mileage about 10%, I always felt as though you should never eliminate certain aspects of training altogether, so once a week I made sure to keep some sort of strength/threshold type of stimulus in whether it be 20mins of tempo followed by some cutdowns, or a progressive long run, or some long hills. The last 4-6 weeks were the time when I would break away from big general groups and get very specific with my training and individualized. For me being a 1500m runner, I knew that I would have my peak race and also sometime within the last month leading up to it I needed to get into a tuneup race - either an 800 or 1000m. So that last month was very much geared towards 800m and 1500m, whereas early in the spring I might have worked out with some of the longer distance runners.

Key Workouts from my log:

1) 4x(600m@1500m effort, 300m easy, 300m hard) with 800m jog between sets in [1:30, 43.3] [1:28, 43.0] [1:29, 42.5] [1:27, 41.0]

2) 2x1k with 4:00 rest in 2:33, 2:29 ... 6x300 cutdown 45 ---> 40

3) 3x(3x300) in 46, 44, 42 with 1:00 rest and 4:00 between sets

This link has been shared on other similar threads, and I think it would be of some interest to you. I especially like the training methods of Seb Coe.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~peterg1/run/aths.html

I don't think he went to michigan. he merely stated he did a "michigan" workout, which has been adopted by training groups across the whole country and other colleges. Although this looks similar to Warhurst training, I think it looks like it could be warhurst, gags, vigilante or some other Mid-D type guru

Good thread

Fair enough. Had no idea the Michigan workout became so popular. I always thought it was a bit odd to be forcing both the XC guys and the 1500m track guys to be doing the same exact workout, to be honest.

Here you go !

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719

Is GreenRunner still lurking? Would love to know how you periodize training and what base looks like

Good post

Bump. Is GreenRunner still lurking?

1500m runner looking for advice in typical weeks in base/pre comp/competition