Just to make it official regarding the "witch hunt" nonsense

For NOP defenders, it's all about deflection, obfuscation and attacking anyone who is not on their side.

I, not Salazar, am the victim of a witch hunt.

You guys don't know what a real witch hunt is.

I only saw the term used for Mo -- who hasn't really been accused of anything, yet still seems obliged to defend himself.

How would you feign lying?

Bump because I still see some knuckle-draggers using the term "witch hunt".

I love a good witch hunt.

Which witch bitches snitched on the which men witches when those witch snitches plyed their twisted-panties snitch pictures?

for the sake of completeness, i think i'd point out your understanding of witch hunt is probably wrong.

in a general sense, "witch hunt" typically just means:

a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.

that largely tracks the origin of the phrase, as you might guess.

seems to me the campaign against NOP is quite correctly described as a "witch hunt." it may be that with the passage of time, based on the current evidence or the revelation of new evidence, everybody agrees that NOP's activity up to this point has been "wrong," or at odds with certain commonly recognized rules or principles of sport. that wouldn't change much, if anything, about the propriety of characterizing the outcry and investigation right now a "witch hunt," because we'd still be talking about a "campaign directed against" NOP's "unpopular views."

on a related note, i think we might also appropriately refer to this anti-confederacy uprising as a "witch hunt."

the question arises: what might NOT appropriately be characterized as witch hunt? for one thing, probably the example you cite for the opposite proposition. in that scenario, the group isn't likely subject to outcry for its unpopular views; instead, the outcry is based on a misapprehension (one could argue this was often also the case in witch hunts back in the day, which is true, but it obscures the point that witches would often have been appropriately perceived as having an alternate belief system, which is not, according to your hypothetical, the case with the non-pedophiles). i think we've got a lot of other words and phrases to describe the situation you've cited, and "witch hunt" is probably least precise among them.

juan_t_reyna wrote:

seems to me the campaign against NOP is quite correctly described as a "witch hunt." it may be that with the passage of time, based on the current evidence or the revelation of new evidence, everybody agrees that NOP's activity up to this point has been "wrong," or at odds with certain commonly recognized rules or principles of sport. that wouldn't change much, if anything, about the propriety of characterizing the outcry and investigation right now a "witch hunt," because we'd still be talking about a "campaign directed against" NOP's "unpopular views."

8/10

Excellent use of obfuscation and subtle attempt to build consensus that the earth is flat. If only USATF's Online Community Coordinator dungeon would pay more than Ramen for dinner in your shared apartment.

You'd be great at writing documentation. That will pay better than USATF's PR contractor.

The fact that your back is all up about witch-hunts being called what they are pretty much proves that they are truly witch-hunts. The official policy of Letsrun.com is everyone except the BroJos is on drugs, has been for over a decade.

Calling this particular witch-hunt a witch-hunt has nothing to do with AlSal/NOP's recent calling out, it has to do with the fact nearly every major runner is routinely accused of being a druggy in these parts. Just because it looks like this time SOMEONE ELSE did some research and has some damning information about AlSal/NOP doesn't obsolve letsrun.com of being nothing but a bunch of people moving from one witch-hunt to another.

We all know the BroJos have wanted to take down NOP for some time, and that it was indeed a witch-hunt. Just because this time they stumbled across a witch this time doesn't mean it wasn't a witch-hunt to begin with.

They routinely hound people with sketchy or non-existent evidence, since they has none before ProPublica came out with theirs. Having a "who's on drugs" survey is nothing but hounding people with sketchy or non-existent evidence and is the very definition of a witch-hunt.

So pull your head out of your rectum, it's a witch-hunt, get over it. That's the facts on the table. ProPublica did the work, letsrun.com's witch-hunt had nothing to do with exposing AlSal.

juan_t_reyna wrote:

for the sake of completeness, i think i'd point out your understanding of witch hunt is probably wrong.

in a general sense, "witch hunt" typically just means:

a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.

that largely tracks the origin of the phrase, as you might guess.

seems to me the campaign against NOP is quite correctly described as a "witch hunt." it may be that with the passage of time, based on the current evidence or the revelation of new evidence, everybody agrees that NOP's activity up to this point has been "wrong," or at odds with certain commonly recognized rules or principles of sport. that wouldn't change much, if anything, about the propriety of characterizing the outcry and investigation right now a "witch hunt," because we'd still be talking about a "campaign directed against" NOP's "unpopular views."

.

Just an FYI -

holding "unpopular views" =/= cheating by use of PEDs

Glad I could help clear that up for you.

Reading the title, I thought this thread was about the Tom Brady deflategate hearing today.

The crux of the witch hunt definition is that a group is being persecuted for being out of favor or having beliefs that are out of favor. This is an INVESTIGATION based on the NOP's ACTIONS, not their beliefs.

So from skimming your useless rant, it seems that you don't understand the meaning of at least the following terms:

1) witch hunt

2) official

3) absolve

4) has/had/have

Views R Us wrote:

Just an FYI -

holding "unpopular views" =/= cheating by use of PEDs

Glad I could help clear that up for you.

well, no, in this case, it might well be that they are the same thing. in the absence of additional evidence, a reasonable observer would probably describe what alberto does as "exploiting every possible mechanism that wont result in a wada sanction." a lot of the community seems to have come to the conclusion that that philosophy, and the resulting activity, constitutes "cheating by use of PEDs." at least some of the community, and possibly wada itself, might nevertheless conclude the activity doesn't constitute "cheating by use of PEDs" (regardless whether that's because its not clear that we have a good definition of PED, or it's because given the rules as currently written, alberto hasn't "cheated").

if it's true that alberto hasn't done anything that violates the rules as currently written (it's a big if, and i take no position on the question; i think we all need a lot more information), but the majority of the community nonetheless agrees that what he's done constitutes "cheating" or "violating the spirit" of the sport or something similar, then it appears it's pretty clearly the case that:

"unpopular view" (i.e. exploiting every possible advantage not resulting in sanction) == "cheating [by use of PED or some analogous mechanism]" (i.e. "violating the spirit" of the sport as defined by the majority).

jay walter weatherman wrote:

So from skimming your useless rant, it seems that you don't understand the meaning of at least the following terms:

1) witch hunt

2) official

3) absolve

4) has/had/have

After reading and understanding your useless response it seems you don't have even basic reading comprehension skills, or you're simply another witch-hunter trying to justify the fact that you indeed are one.

So WITCH-HUNT! WITCH-HUNT! WITCH-HUNT!

( just wanted you to start foaming at the mouth and ruin your keyboard because I think that's fun, just like you and the BroJo's think witch-hunting is fun )

So if I say that your mom is a whore and you are her pimp, and you take exception to this, the fact that I touched a nerve proves that I am right?

Actually, it has everything to do with, and only to do with, the NOP situation. I hinted at this in the first sentence of my previous post:

Anyone who uses the term "witch hunt" to describe the Salazar/NOP situation

Pretend that I agree with this and all of the other irrelevant comments that follow.

My observation has nothing to do with the kindly folks who stubbornly keep this website going in the face of countless trolls, sexist pigs, racists, spread-legged sluts, and worse. I was referring to the numerous people here who have labeled _any_and_all_ of the allegations against the NOP as witch hunts, including those noted by Pro Publica, which you yourself grudgingly acknowledge has uncovered some real dirt.

So, while you may be correct about the website owners sporting a dual, painfully rigid erection at the prospect rooting out every doper in track and field, and sometimes going to unnecessary lengths as a result (I was unaware of the poll you speak of), that is a different discussion.

Simply saying, "She's fast -- she MUST be on drugs!" is not productive. But given that there are now good reasons to believe that Alberto Salazar has engaged in deeply unethical behavior, continued efforts on the part of the press and others to learn more about the details is not a witch hunt.

jay walter weatherman wrote:

The crux of the witch hunt definition is that a group is being persecuted for being out of favor or having beliefs that are out of favor. This is an INVESTIGATION based on the NOP's ACTIONS, not their beliefs.

While there is apparently an investigation underway by USADA and certain journalists, there also is more than a little moral panic being fostered the denizens of this site. Perhaps "lynch mob" is more appropriate than "witch hunt" but the fact of a legitimate investigation by one group doesn't excuse less legitimate behavior on the part of others.