What's Strange about the Claims against Salazar

NOP has a pyramid structure. That is how it works. You have to peel through the onion's layers to get to the core.

Montesquieu

You have always appeared to me to be an Alberto/Galen/NOP apologist. What about the unnamed dude who said he was told to take testosterone because that is what Alberto does? Nobody but you is saying that Farah is clean, and the absence of evidence is not evidence of its absence. You need to be more objective me boy.

Montesquieu wrote:

If doping were systematic at NOP, and if there was doping why wouldn't it be systematic, wouldn't you think Magness and Goucher would have seen some evidence of it?

This is an unfounded assumption. It would make a lot more sense for even a scurrilous coach to focus on only one or a few key athletes as doping targets, lest the word get out that much more easily. And since he captured Rupp's confidence when the guy was only 16 or so, he could be almost 100% certain Rupp would never blab -- and never leave.

Montesquieu wrote:

So it turns out that the guy who is the world and Olympic champion is clean, yet the guy who has never won a race in Europe, and has won only one "international race" (in Eugene) isn't?

This is an even shakier assumption, cascading from the faulty premise above. You seem to be using a syllogism like this:

1. If Rupp is truly dirty, everyone with the NOP should be dirty.

2. If everyone in the NOP is dirty, the Gouchers would have known and said so.

3. The Gouchers only called out Rupp; therefore, those they didn't call out were clean, including Mo.

Shorter version: You're jumping the gun. Epstein and others will have a lot more to say soon.

You don't know what testosterone medication is? It's testostrrone. Do you think that prednisone isn't really prednisone, it's really 'predniboost'? You're really that gullible?

It is an unnamed source, or "dude" as you call it, who is relating one discussion with a trainer. I don't think the source even talked to Salazar about it. What is any investigator supposed to do with that? Same goes with the story about the hollowed out paperback book with pills in it. I maintain that the only serious allegation in all this is the Gouchers claiming manipulation of the TUE process.

The 2nd Amendment Is Outdated wrote:

Montesquieu

You have always appeared to me to be an Alberto/Galen/NOP apologist. What about the unnamed dude who said he was told to take testosterone because that is what Alberto does? Nobody but you is saying that Farah is clean, and the absence of evidence is not evidence of its absence. You need to be more objective me boy.

Ryan Foreman wrote:

I maintain that the only serious allegation in all this is the Gouchers claiming manipulation of the TUE process.

Well, that settles it, then...

...there's obviously far more to the story. (In my time here, I have rapidly learned that your posts typically reflect reality turned precisely upside-down or backward.) In this case, you clearly did not pay close attention to the documentary and should probably re-watch it.

I would like to,learn more about the story. The term 'testosterone medication' seems odd. It seems like the author knows the specific drug Prednisone but does not quite know what the other drug is. Maybe it is testosterone. Or maybe a staff member was writing down what a 16 year old runner said. When I go to a doctor, usually a nurse asks me what I am on and types it in. Prescriptions come from the doctor,. Maybe young Galen described testoboost as testosterone medication. Who knows? Rupp could be microdosing but it is possible for there to be another explanation for the document.

I would like to hear more about the unnamed runner who spoke with the doctor or manipulation of TUEs.

Also, Kara was one of Alberto's top runners and she says she was clean the whole time. So I am cautious to cast doubt on all NOP runners. I look forward to learning more.

^^ POD.

The Epstein piece is troubling....but ultimately thin soup in the overall context of drugs & doping in sport. Frankly, I expected much worse and the absence of more serious EPO & blood doping allegations is almost a "win" for NOP.

Of course, more shoes could drop...

Mo shoes will drop. Not lightweight trainers, but massive steel-lined work boots. It is coming. The trap has been set. Salazar is are stepping into it. There will be no escape for NOP.

Mo Shoes wrote:

Mo shoes will drop. Not lightweight trainers, but massive steel-lined work boots. It is coming. The trap has been set. Salazar is are stepping into it. There will be no escape for NOP.

It apparently feels very good to type such things, but you probably have zero first hand knowledge about any of this. I find the Epstein report to be very troubling, but as someone else said, it is far from total proof--yet. Equally troubling to me are the assumptions of the hard core zealots on both sides. I deeply want the cheats OUT--PERIOD. But far more must be publicly shared for us to really know. Those third-party trolls who claim to have *certain* knowledge but are really flying a flag of loyalty to NOP or loyalty to bringing them down are just filling an inner need, but you don't know. We are all hoping a thorough investigation happens. Probably enough has been divulged to eventually marginalized Salazar. Who knows, perhaps a smoking gun will emerge and several NOP athletes will get busted--but you do not know this. None of us on the outside knows. Maybe we will never know. Maybe the lines were only crossed with Rupp? Obviously, you will never believe Mo is clean, but thus far there is zero against him in terms of hard evidence. Was he foolish to go to NOP? I think so. Is he a cheat? I think we are far from knowing this to be the case.

It's about money. Lots of money. Those who make the most money, always want more. Rules don't apply to the rich. Rules are for little people. Le nouveau riche are always interesting. They tend to fall the hardest from their precarious perches.

Give thinking a try after you have read something.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned about things in the report. I'm saying the OP is right. People are claiming Salazar is covering something up. But even the allegations themselves contradict that.

How do we know Salazar had a tube of Androgel? Because Salazar left the Androgel in his room and he asked a massage therapist, who was not part of NOP or a trusted assistant, to get it and send it to him. Magness came across the medical report with the word testosterone on it because Salazar told him to go through all the medical reports.

That is a coverup? It doesn't make sense. I could on and on about other stuff.

I'm with the Rojos that there should be some kind of investigation.

But assuming that happens, nobody should be the least bit surprised if Salazar is exonerated or at minimum gets a small slap on the wrist. I can easily imagine a investigation finding that Salazar is using every gadget and supplement he can within the legal limits and has been upfront with USADA and WADA. It so happens that is what Salazar has publicly advertised he has been doing for years.

NOP fanboys should be prepared to let Salazar, Farah, and Rupp go.

Salazar never 'advertised' use of testosterone, predisone, and cytomel. What Salazar has 'advertised' are things that can mask the use of things he shouldn't be allowing, and encouraging, use of.

Hes a coaching genius despite the PEDs.

I believe that if you could somehow eliminate doping his athletes would outperform the rest.

Mo Shoes wrote:

Mo shoes will drop. Not lightweight trainers, but massive steel-lined work boots. It is coming. The trap has been set. Salazar is are stepping into it. There will be no escape for NOP.

No, not really. Nike's Money means no sanctiOns. None.

Monti, broseph,

Too long and you strayed off message too much.

Hit the messages you were given to pollute this forum and don't stray from them. Being an online community coordinator for Nike is harder than it sounded when you got the job.

It was probably a low dose of test and Rupp ain't fertile he just had twins. Look how many high school football, baseball, and basketball players juice in high school? People are being unfairly harsh on Salaraz.

But I think he's pretty smart with his training program. At least compared to the University coaches in my area who injure everyone.

The Truth Pt. 3.0 wrote:

Hes a coaching genius despite the PEDs.

I believe that if you could somehow eliminate doping his athletes would outperform the rest.

coaching genius? Nope. Lydiard, Igloi, Canova are geniuses. He's not in their league.

You seem to have forgotten the part about Salazar (a recent heart-attack victim) claiming that the Androgel was HIS. You also seem to have forgotten Magness stating that his eyes were never supposed to pass across that report.

Of course it doesn't. Nothing makes sense to you. Would you have expected Salazar to deny the very existence of the Androgel and the report when others had come into possession of them? Really, how damn thick-skulled must you be?

Thanks, but that won't be necessary.

Just how many Rojos do you think there are?

Time for bed, Ryan.

State how you know.

Oh wait, drunk fake name weasel.

Hi, Kare Bear!