Hadd Training: Specific Outline?

Vincent J - have you visited these two links?

http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

http://can.milesplit.com/discussion/topics/90162/1

The first is Hadd's outline of the Phase I programme (the base) and the second is the best summary around of his Phase IIa programme (specific training/sharpening for the 1500-HM).

The Phase IIa stuff is pretty similar to most 5k/10k training periods, to be honest, it's not that detailed and it's not terribly unique (there's nothing wrong with it, either). It is the Phase I training for which Hadd is best known, which is all about getting into the best possible aerobic shape BEFORE the specific training period.

I started training according to his Phase I principles late last year and saw really impressive results. I'm not new to running, though I was aerobically under-trained in the sense that Hadd outlines towards the beginning of the first paper I linked above.

If you have a 5k time that is significantly better than your 10k/HM/M then I would strongly recommend following his plan. It has been a revelation to me and I can't understand why more runners don't follow it.

"If you have a 5k time that is significantly better than your 10k/HM/M then I would strongly recommend following his plan. It has been a revelation to me and I can't understand why more runners don't follow it."

More don't follow it because it is not designed for HS kids.

More don't follow it because it takes too long.

More don't follow it because it is most useful if done at 100+ mpw but people just don't want to run that much.

I don't like the Hadd thing because I don't like training with a HRM. I find their info to be highly suspect and irrelevant.

I don't like running that slow for THAT long.

It's just A way to train, but not THE way to train. Everyone is different and responds to different approaches with much different results.

People don't follow it because it's simply wrong.

lknx8902 wrote:

"If you have a 5k time that is significantly better than your 10k/HM/M then I would strongly recommend following his plan. It has been a revelation to me and I can't understand why more runners don't follow it."

More don't follow it because it is not designed for HS kids.

More don't follow it because it takes too long.

More don't follow it because it is most useful if done at 100+ mpw but people just don't want to run that much.

Yes I agree with all of that, so I suppose I do understand. But the point remains, it is very effective if you are aerobically under-trained and want to improve over longer distances.

If you want short cuts, though, this isn't one.

All it is is a way to trick people into slowing down enough to maximise training volume.

derbeian wrote:

But the point remains, it is very effective if you are aerobically under-trained and want to improve over longer distances

It's not more effective than simply spending a summer running as many miles as you can with a tempo thrown in once or twice a week. And this is just what most serious HS runners do. Diddling with heart rates only distracts a serious runner from what's important: 1: run more miles, 2: get to know your body.

you're not a serious runner wrote:

[quote]It's not more effective than simply spending a summer running as many miles as you can with a tempo thrown in once or twice a week. And this is just what most serious HS runners do.

Good, then most serious HS runners train like Hadd's phase I, but don't monitor their effort so closely. Which possibly makes them less rather than more serious about their running.

But this is probably not for HS runners anyway, as noted above. If the OP is a HS runner, it might not be for him at all. It is principally for physically mature athletes who have natural speed but have lost (or never had) high aerobic fitness.

Here's a basic outline of Phase I:

Mon: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Tue: short warmup + 10 mile tempo

Wed: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Thu: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Fri: short warmup + 10 mi tempo

Sat: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Sun: 2 hrs easy

For the tempos, spend about 4-5 weeks each at 80%, 82%, 84%, and 86% of max heart rate, or until the tempos are "peanuts" and heart rate is stable throughout the entire run.

For slow twitch runners, Hadd recommended running a 10 x 100 fast (at 800 pace) with 100 jog before the 10 mile tempos.

Easy running should be done at sub-72% of max heart rate.

Every 2-3 weeks, substitute a 10 mile tempo for a 12 x 200 fast (3k-5k pace) with a 200 float recovery at 15-20 seconds slower than the fast 200.

Hop in a 5-10k race every now and then.

Every 4-6 weeks, take a "down" week and cut everything back 33-50%.

Lots in this post does not jive with actual advice written on LR by "Hadd" (John Walsh, deceased, of Malta), at least the way I remember it:

Outliner wrote:

Here's a basic outline of Phase I:

Mon: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Tue: short warmup + 10 mile tempo

Wed: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Thu: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Fri: short warmup + 10 mi tempo

Sat: 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 easy

Sun: 2 hrs easy

For the tempos, spend about 4-5 weeks each at 80%, 82%, 84%, and 86% of max heart rate, or until the tempos are "peanuts" and heart rate is stable throughout the entire run.

For slow twitch runners, Hadd recommended running a 10 x 100 fast (at 800 pace) with 100 jog before the 10 mile tempos.

Easy running should be done at sub-72% of max heart rate.

Every 2-3 weeks, substitute a 10 mile tempo for a 12 x 200 fast (3k-5k pace) with a 200 float recovery at 15-20 seconds slower than the fast 200.

Hop in a 5-10k race every now and then.

Every 4-6 weeks, take a "down" week and cut everything back 33-50%.

Selected issues:

- 10 mile "tempo" (these are intended to be built from smaller blocks upward toward something like 10 miles as a "tempo" level gets mastered, not jumped into right out of the box); the word "tempo" in this context is likely to confuse people

- the HR ranges for "tempo" (your word) are more like:

80-83 % of HRmax

82-85 %

85-88 %

87-90 %

- 10 x 100/100 "fast" is not done during warmups in phase I

- easy running is at 70-75% or less, not sub-72%

- the 200/200 sessions are at 5k pace, not 3k-5k pace

- racing in phase I is not advised

Pete wrote:

Lots in this post does not jive with actual advice written on LR by "Hadd" (John Walsh, deceased, of Malta), at least the way I remember it:

Is this THE Pete, author of the second thread I linked above? If so, do you know much detail of the Phase IIb programme should look like, ie the marathon prep phase?

I've never found anything substantial on that, beyond the suggestion that it's more or less a return to Phase I.

derbeian wrote:

Vincent J - have you visited these two links?

http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdfhttp://can.milesplit.com/discussion/topics/90162/1

I have seen the first of those 2 links. I seem to remember reading that a poster named Pete (who apparently used Hadd's system with great results) said somewhere that Hadd did write some sort of outline of the Phase II program, but that it wasn't widely available. A lot of those threads seem to involve Hadd giving the principles and some of the physiology behind why the slow aerobic training works, but at the end of the day, even if someone embraces the ideas, they have to know how to put those principles into action with some concrete training schedule. That was what I was hoping to find with his phase II: on Mondays and Wednesdays, do these kinds of intervals, on Saturdays do a tempo run similar to this example, etc.

I'm starting to train with HR training and it's working--I am going by feel and just having loose zones:

135-150 is my everyday EZ zone. In January I was able to run 3 miles in 31 minutes, at 160 bpm. Three months ago today (1/29).

Now, I can do 3 miles in 23:xx, at the same bpm. My 10:00-10:15 pace is down to 133-136 bpm.

Just going to build from the bottom up.

Thanks to whomever posted the PDF!

I know these times are slow but realistic for most runners out there and can be extrapolated to elite runners with faster times, i.e. their EZ paces are 7:30-7:45 instead of 10:00-10:15.