What is my ceiling?

I don't know what you want to hear, bud. You need a radical change. Clearly what you have been doing is not working. Have you considered changing your eating habits? Are you recovering adequetly? It sounds like you need to slow down your regular recovery runs, and drop mileage a bit. At the very least drop the mileage.

Accept that you won't magically run 15:xx tomorrow (or ever for what is worth)

Keep running. Run smart. don't overtrain. don't over race. Improvement will come. take it, cherish it. Keep running if you really like it.

You are not the first runner whose will and PRs do not match. It's the sad truth of our sport.

I call troll!

Ok I'm not a troll.

I just wanted advice, wisdom, knowledge anout what i may be doing wrong, what i am doing right. Just overall talk about my running to see how i can improve. I'm a huge fan of the sport and love doing it myself. I trust my coach and he's coached some national caliber runners but second advice never hurt. I want to have a great break out this year

Hey BB, I'm at a conference right now. Have you started running again yet?

For your first week back, run one hour/day at the heart rate I prescribed. If you can do it on soft surfaces, so much the better, but that's not necessary. Report back how far you ran during that hour.

Oh, and Ignore the trolls on here.

I call troll!

My first day back is tomorrow. My coach has a schedule for us to follow, i follow it to a tee, but i kind of want to try this heart rrate specific training. Will running an hour be too much stress on my legs after a 10 day break?

No. Not at the hr I'm recommending. You're going to be shocked, I think. 60% of heart rate reserve will probably be about 9 - 10 minute/mile pace for you. Your legs are going to be fine. If they're not, then I have ideas about that, too.

Alright I'll give it a try. I just watched a youtube video of jack daniels actually where he says to run easy runs at 60% heart rate too

Link wrote:

No. Not at the hr I'm recommending. You're going to be shocked, I think. 60% of heart rate reserve will probably be about 9 - 10 minute/mile pace for you. Your legs are going to be fine. If they're not, then I have ideas about that, too.

By the way my legs will be fine now that i think about it. I feel like I'm strong, and that's notba fast pace obviously. How long do i run at that pace for? How many days? / weeks?

Link wrote:

No. Not at the hr I'm recommending. You're going to be shocked, I think. 60% of heart rate reserve will probably be about 9 - 10 minute/mile pace for you. Your legs are going to be fine. If they're not, then I have ideas about that, too.

9-10 minutes per mile for an hour? What use is that? His problem is lack of speed endurance, not lack of 'aerobic base'.

sdfjapsdoijf wrote:

Link wrote:

No. Not at the hr I'm recommending. You're going to be shocked, I think. 60% of heart rate reserve will probably be about 9 - 10 minute/mile pace for you. Your legs are going to be fine. If they're not, then I have ideas about that, too.

9-10 minutes per mile for an hour? What use is that? His problem is lack of speed endurance, not lack of 'aerobic base'.

My guess would have been probably speed endurance too. How do i increase this? Is this thw ssame or in the same ballpark as v02max?

sdfjapsdoijf wrote:

Link wrote:

No. Not at the hr I'm recommending. You're going to be shocked, I think. 60% of heart rate reserve will probably be about 9 - 10 minute/mile pace for you. Your legs are going to be fine. If they're not, then I have ideas about that, too.

9-10 minutes per mile for an hour? What use is that? His problem is lack of speed endurance, not lack of 'aerobic base'.

My guess would have been probably speed endurance too. How do i increase this? Is this thw ssame or in the same ballpark as v02max?

Link wrote:

I'm at a conference right now..

Why does this matter?

V02max and speed endurance are different things. Don't worry about your VO2max, it will take care of itself. Speed endurance is improved by training at faster paces for short periods without straining, resting for short periods and repeating. In other words, interval training.

Most runners try too hard and don't improve much with interval training. The important thing is to train, not strain. What you are really trying to achieve with this, is to improve the skill of your running at speed, whereby you are more able to control the natural spring in your muscles and tendons. When you strain in training, this natural springy stride is lost, when you do it right, it's maintained.

sdfjapsdoijf wrote:

V02max and speed endurance are different things. Don't worry about your VO2max, it will take care of itself. Speed endurance is improved by training at faster paces for short periods without straining, resting for short periods and repeating. In other words, interval training.

Most runners try too hard and don't improve much with interval training. The important thing is to train, not strain. What you are really trying to achieve with this, is to improve the skill of your running at speed, whereby you are more able to control the natural spring in your muscles and tendons. When you strain in training, this natural springy stride is lost, when you do it right, it's maintained.

Wow thanks :)

That makes a lot of sense! What distance would you say is too long, and what is too short? Something between 200-600 with less than or at 60 seconds recovery? I'm obviously in the base phase right now. Our conference meet is late October, regionals is early november, and nationals if we mame it is late november. When should this type of training happen? Is it even important for a 10 or even 8 k race??

All of the different paces of interval training support each other. For instance, if you run 200's in 32 seconds one day, you should find it easier to run 800's in 2.30 a few days later etc.

There are no hard and fast rules about how often and when, to do interval training, but it is important to build gradually, so that you don't peak to early. Also, it gets harder to run the longer efforts as the days get warmer and more humid. So you either need a good coach, a good training group, or follow the advice on this message board as you progress. Any mistakes which make you tired can be easily corrected if you spot the warning signs of fatigue early.

sdfjapsdoijf wrote:

All of the different paces of interval training support each other. For instance, if you run 200's in 32 seconds one day, you should find it easier to run 800's in 2.30 a few days later etc.

There are no hard and fast rules about how often and when, to do interval training, but it is important to build gradually, so that you don't peak to early. Also, it gets harder to run the longer efforts as the days get warmer and more humid. So you either need a good coach, a good training group, or follow the advice on this message board as you progress. Any mistakes which make you tired can be easily corrected if you spot the warning signs of fatigue early.

This makes sense. Thank you! I'm just doing some light jogging for 25-45 minutes the next 10 days before i pick up the pace

Anyone else have any thoughts?